3Mass taking shape

November 5, 2008
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The luxury condo and retail project called 3 Mass is taking shape as sales pick up speed. Buyers have snapped up 26 of the 44 units, including $8 million in sales in September and October, said Todd Maurer of lead developer Halakar Properties. The project sits at Massachusetts Avenue and New York Street. What do you think?

3 Mass Indianapolis

3 Mass Indianapolis
(IBJ Photos/Cory Schouten)
  • The project is excellent. It fits well into the urban context. We need more urban infill projects like this. What great views from these units.
  • The structure works well to add to the density and the urban environment on Mass Ave. I still wish that they used all brick or stone on it's entire facade; in spite of this though, I think it's still an exciting addition to Mass Ave.
  • Wow........it really seems huge compared the building on the corner! It is a great project though, hopefully we'll begin to see more of these in-fill projects around the city.
  • It only seems huge from that angle. If you look SW on Mass or W on New York, the backdrop is tall buildings downtown. One Indiana Square is, after all, diagonally across the street.
  • I love it love it love it. I like the high profile (indy-style Celebrities) that are moving in there. This adds to the uniquness of this cultural district. Great infill project. I'm actually starting to like looking Northwest out of the 5/3rd building over all the parking lots to see a nice multi-level apartment complex sprouting up that faces the city as well. Updates on that?
  • are the high profile celebrities the homeless that hangout at that corner. I cant believe anyone would even think about livingthere withthe mission nextdoor.
  • Downtowner - you obviously havn't lived in too many larger city downtowns. One - those people are pretty friendly and stay confined to there area. Two - it are these instances that establish the cultural and unique fabric of a city. Three - our city is a lot better off in regards to these instances as opposed to other cities and I think it is a good testament to the citizens of downtown who are willing to take a chance on living in the inner urban core and co-exisiting with all the flaws and blemishes the city may have. If anything it brings those issues into the spolight to either help find a solution or a better way to mitigate those concerns.
  • Mayor Ballard wants to put the Metro Bus terminal less than a block away.
  • roberth, I agree with you. It would be nice if more infill projects will happen frequently. The one thing I think that needs much attention is the Barton building. That building is an utter mistake cutting off the strip of Mass Ave. Big joke. I think it needs to be redeveloped and in some way actually pull the southwestern part of Mass Ave into the northeastern part.
  • I do really like this project overall, and wish that more project would take pointers from this. However, the massing of the building does envelop the Hammond-Price Building on the corner which is unfortunate. Also, the main criticism I had about this project dealt with the material treatment use on the higher recessed floors and the way that these floor feel disconnected from the rest of the building. I should say that these were my impressions based on pictures from the proposal and other sources, so this is certainly subject to change as the actual construction progresses. It will none the less be interesting to see the final product.
  • The Barton Apartments come up frequently. I don't care what it looks like or what people think of its location on Mass Ave, it would be a huge mistake to do away with that tower and the good it does for the community. For the sake of improving the urban environment on Mass Ave, that area can be 90% fixed without touching the Barton complex. All they need to do is open that triangular park space next to the tower to development and relocate the Mass Ave. fire station. (The Ballard administration may have even been hinting at the possibility of that second point a couple months ago.)
  • Celebrities? Where do you people get your information?
  • Marco Andrettis had talked about moving from Firehouse Square to this building. His father was also mentioned in an article that he may sell his 757Mass unit to move to this location. 2 Colts players have said they will move in - none of the big namers though. A director at CICF will move in and Roger Penske is buying a unit to use for family and team members when they come in to town.

    Thats all I've seen, read or heard about. Any others? Of course these aren't directly from the horses mouth - but ya know. Why can't we start our own TMZ for indy!
  • Marco Andrettis had talked about moving from Firehouse Square to this building. His father was also mentioned in an article that he may sell his 757Mass unit to move to this location. 2 Colts players have said they will move in - none of the big namers though. A director at CICF will move in and Roger Penske is buying a unit to use for family and team members when they come in to town.

    Well...there goes the neighborhood.
  • From the southwest, the angle of the first photo, 3 Mass together with the Hammond-Price building makes me think of a huge brick cruise ship. I keep expecting to see Leonardo DiCaprio at the corner of the Hammond-Price building's roof shouting I'm the king of the world!

    Having said that, Mass Ave. would benefit from more of its parking lots being transformed into buildings fitting the culture of the area. And I agree that the fire station and Barton apartments create an effective and unfortunate separation between sections of Mass Ave. People would be more likely to stroll from one end to the other if that discontinuity didn't exist.
  • Nice development. Nice location. If only someone would move/build Wheeler a new facility in another location, this would connect the Mass Ave district to the rest of the city. Think of the nightlife that could fill in some of those buildings along Delaware/New York.
  • Wheeler is in a prime location.......they could probably get a lot of money for their building if they moved it.......but I imagine they would have MANY difficulties trying to get a new location, most people do not want to live next to a homeless shelter.....
  • So you keep the building downtown and you place it in a predominatly Commercial block where most of the people in the evening and weekends are non existent. Closer to jail area near Jefferson Plaza area along Delaware or Pennsylvania - but im sure those rents are high as well. I don't know - its a serve that still needs to be maintained and kept in the downtown area.
  • Mike W I am not sure where you get your info about the homeless keeping to themselves. I guarantee I know more aboutthis than you. I am the one that gets called almost nightly to deal with the problems on that corner. You my friend are the clueless one. I was just commenting that I wouldnt want to smell the urine and see the trash and crackpipes. (I have picked up the crackpipes, plural). Especially outside my window.
  • Are you guys smoking something? This building is awful! Aaaah, I'm just kidding. Someone said the entire N.Y. St. facade will be EIFS. That would be pretty disappointing, but I think the form of the building fits in great, even if it does like someone parked a spaceship on top of a 6-story brick building.
  • The building has absolutely the right height and density that Indy should be lookingt to build downtown. Indy doesn't need high rises. It needs 4-12 story buildings that cover their entire lot and totally enclosed parking with street level interest on all sides. This building fits that bill. I particularly like the way the upper floors step back to reduce the building scale versus the smaller structures on Mass Ave. The green roof elements are nice.

    However, there are a few problems.

    1. An influential segment of the downtown population does not want anything except single family homes and very low density development. They are exactly like their suburban cousins in this respect. Subsequent to this building, the city put in a historic district with guidelines that will prohibit any future buildings like this in the future nearby, notwithstanding the many examples that are taller than it.

    2. The building will be a gigantic tower of EIFS from the northeast and on much of the south side per the renderings. Take a look at the Villagio to see your future.

    3. Supposedly a parking lane has been robbed on Mass Ave. to create a drop off lane, which is unconscionable. If this building needed such a thing, it should have been on New York St. I'm not convinced one was needed at all.

    4. The residents discussed show the problem so with much downtown housing. It is pieds-a-terre for people like race car drivers who are gone most of the time. The city is much better off with a base of full time, more middle class residents that a smattering of the celebrity types.

    We'll have to see what the final product looks like and functions like. I think it iwill end up a as a mixed bag.
  • Although EIFS is not a design feature I am fond of, the massing of this building is perfect and one of, if not the, best infill project that Downtown has seen in years!

    Great news about sales too. Anyone have info on 707 East North Street? I know that has been all but abandoned, but if 3 Mass is doing well, it tells me that there is something internal that is driving that, not the market.
  • The problems with 707 East North Street are probably directly related to 3Mass. They reconfigured things at 707 to appeal to that limited pool of buyers interested in a large, expensive condo -- really, how many full-time Indy residents are interested in condos that start at $1M? -- and to those limited-time residents, as Urbanophile points out, that are interested in a pieds-a-terre. Unfortunately, they were undercut by the MUCH sexier location of 3Mass.
  • Any rumors on the retail for the first floor? Please say sandwich or bagel shop! There's no quick sandwich/morning bagel shop along Mass Ave. Everything is else is sit down or order and carry out. No deli, no bagel shop!

    The only thing that's close to fast dining is Yats and even that's casual sit down.
  • Thank you for the comments on 3Mass Condos. I find it interesting that there are a lot of people who have allegedly bought condos here, like Penske and Andretti. While we would love to have them as residents in the building, they have not bought yet. By the way, there is no parking lane on Mass. Ave. being removed. We will rebuild the parking spots and the sidewalk. The materials being used were selected to help the building blend in with neighboring buildings. Sales are going very well with the building too. We are also very excited about the retail prospects for the first floor. We have been very deliberate in determining acceptable tenants that will fit into the neighborhood. If you want to buy a condo, please visit our website, www.3mass.com. Thank you all for your comments, both the positive and the negative. We will keep working to make 3Mass the best choice for downtown condos.
  • 3Mass,

    Your virtual tour video shows a Hummer sitting on a drop-off lane that has replaced approximately 6 public parking spots along Mass Ave. If that's not in the plan anymore, please update the rendering.

    Also, I'm sorry, but I don't believe your line about selecting materials to help the building blend in with neighboring buildings. There is virtually no EIFS withing several blocks of 3Mass. On the other hand, there is an abundance of brick.

    You chose to use EIFS because it is inexpensive. If the building were 75% brick with a bit of EIFS, one might be inclined to believe you, but since the opposite is true, one can't.
  • Yes the EIFS sucks.

    However, I am really digging the green roof!
  • Would like to update the virtual tour, but it would cost a lot to do so. There will be no drop off lane as shown in the virtual tour.
  • I suppose it would also cost a lot to replace the EIFS with something more suitable?
  • Million-dollar condos with EIFS walls. Hmm...that gives me an idea: improve the Lugar and Barton Towers with vinyl siding!
  • Hopefully the EIFS along New York is not at street level. Brick must be used at street level. EIFS should only be used at higher elevations.
  • As you can now see, brick is being installed along Mass Ave and at street level along New York Street. Brick is also being used along New York Street on the west side of that elevation.

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  1. Apologies for the wall of text. I promise I had this nicely formatted in paragraphs in Notepad before pasting here.

  2. I believe that is incorrect Sir, the people's tax-dollars are NOT paying for the companies investment. Without the tax-break the company would be paying an ADDITIONAL $11.1 million in taxes ON TOP of their $22.5 Million investment (Building + IT), for a total of $33.6M or a 50% tax rate. Also, the article does not specify what the total taxes were BEFORE the break. Usually such a corporate tax-break is a 'discount' not a 100% wavier of tax obligations. For sake of example lets say the original taxes added up to $30M over 10 years. $12.5M, New Building $10.0M, IT infrastructure $30.0M, Total Taxes (Example Number) == $52.5M ININ's Cost - $1.8M /10 years, Tax Break (Building) - $0.75M /10 years, Tax Break (IT Infrastructure) - $8.6M /2 years, Tax Breaks (against Hiring Commitment: 430 new jobs /2 years) == 11.5M Possible tax breaks. ININ TOTAL COST: $41M Even if you assume a 100% break, change the '30.0M' to '11.5M' and you can see the Company will be paying a minimum of $22.5, out-of-pocket for their capital-investment - NOT the tax-payers. Also note, much of this money is being spent locally in Indiana and it is creating 430 jobs in your city. I admit I'm a little unclear which tax-breaks are allocated to exactly which expenses. Clearly this is all oversimplified but I think we have both made our points! :) Sorry for the long post.

  3. Clearly, there is a lack of a basic understanding of economics. It is not up to the company to decide what to pay its workers. If companies were able to decide how much to pay their workers then why wouldn't they pay everyone minimum wage? Why choose to pay $10 or $14 when they could pay $7? The answer is that companies DO NOT decide how much to pay workers. It is the market that dictates what a worker is worth and how much they should get paid. If Lowe's chooses to pay a call center worker $7 an hour it will not be able to hire anyone for the job, because all those people will work for someone else paying the market rate of $10-$14 an hour. This forces Lowes to pay its workers that much. Not because it wants to pay them that much out of the goodness of their heart, but because it has to pay them that much in order to stay competitive and attract good workers.

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  5. It is sad to see these races not have a full attendance. The Indy Car races are so much more exciting than Nascar. It seems to me the commenters here are still a little upset with Tony George from a move he made 20 years ago. It was his decision to make, not yours. He lost his position over it. But I believe the problem in all pro sports is the escalating price of admission. In todays economy, people have to pay much more for food and gas. The average fan cannot attend many events anymore. It's gotten priced out of most peoples budgets.