A development team is finalizing plans for a $480 million mixed-use project that calls for condos, as many
as three hotels, a theater and 175,000 square feet of retail space just south of downtown. The project, Legends District—SODO,
could be one of the largest private developments in the city’s history. It would sprawl over 11 acres that are now home
to several parking lots, Subway and Arby’s restaurants and the former Chateau Thomas Winery. This Ratio Architects rendering
is a view from Lilly's Faris Campus. (Click image for a larger version.) The developer's vision is for an independent downtown
destination that would honor Indiana’s legends in sports, arts, entertainment and politics. Renderings show a series of
giant outdoor television screens and ribbon-screens ala Times Square that would loop clips of Hoosier legends such as Larry
Bird, David Letterman, John Mellencamp and the Andretti family. The full story is here. What do you think?
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Welcome to Property Lines, Indy's source for neighborhood real estate news. Your host is Scott Olson, IBJ's real estate beat
reporter. Edited by Cory Schouten.
A development team is finalizing plans for a $480 million mixed-use project that calls for condos, as many
as three hotels, a theater and 175,000 square feet of retail space just south of downtown. The project, Legends District—SODO,
could be one of the largest private developments in the city’s history. It would sprawl over 11 acres that are now home
to several parking lots, Subway and Arby’s restaurants and the former Chateau Thomas Winery. This Ratio Architects rendering
is a view from Lilly's Faris Campus. (Click image for a larger version.) The developer's vision is for an independent downtown
destination that would honor Indiana’s legends in sports, arts, entertainment and politics. Renderings show a series of
giant outdoor television screens and ribbon-screens ala Times Square that would loop clips of Hoosier legends such as Larry
Bird, David Letterman, John Mellencamp and the Andretti family. The full story is here. What do you think?
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Laura-the festivals and tastings are free. What does is strengthen the sense of community with activities. What are those empty lots doing for the Village? it's sad you can't see the good that this progress can do for the area. No one is requiring anyone to shop there. I guess you'd rather see a Dollar store move in or no, we'd rather see the property stand empty b/c change is out of the question.
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Read down to the part about Brizzi. Someone needs to subpoena his "purchases" of Red RockPictures and Cellstar and his corresponding bank records, I mean c'mon, I'd like to see his alcohol usage records, too. http://diana-vice.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html
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Wonder if my neighborhood can advertise our "retention" pond and act like it is a beach too?
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a new record at the '11 salebration until they realized that it was a futile effort to get their crapwagon moter and crapwagon car up speed. And then they just quietly slunk off into the night and never spoke of it again. Nothing to see here folks.
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millions for putting a company's bumper sticker on one of its Lolas. But you gotta take what you can get.
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However, my fear with this is the same with Venu. This theater and the theater at Venu is really going to give Clowes Hall and the Murat strong competition, and something is going to have to give somewhere.
All in all though, I am intensely excited about this.
The only thing I worry about is the independent word in the description. I don't want something insular -- it should embrace and be part of downtown.
Problem is -- and I think some comments have appeared on this blog another time -- the railroad tracks at South Street can't help but act as Downtown Indy's southern fortress walls.
SODO would certainly cast a big shadow over the proposed Ralston Square!
I know the land is in place but has the financing been secured?
Will a zoning approval have to take place and if so, has it?
If the developer doesn't get the tax abatement will the project be scrapped?
There are so many downtown projects on the boards I have lost count. As soon as I get excited about one thinking its a go (MSA site) something prevents it from happening.
With all of the condos going up, and hotels and SODO's promise of weighty retail anchors, all that's structurally left for MSA would be affordable housing.
Glad to see all this development occuring south of the traditional downtown core. This sounds like a very exciting project, indeed!
I really hope that this gets pulled off as it will really anchor the Luke with the Wholesale District and the rest of downtown. VERY EXCITING!!!!
I am so excited! If this is built, it will totally connect downtown and the Luke. The architecture isn't too bad either. I'm extremely excited about this! It could do so much for the city.
http://www.indyrc2020.org/
It recommends that the City-County Complex extend south end east from the City-County Building toward the train tracks. I firmly believe that the MSA site should include a large residential component. If now is not the right time for residential at the MSA site, I say don't build anything. I fall on the side of The Urbanophile, who argues that building nothing is often better than building the wrong thing.
Secondly, the MSA parking lot should have been a govenment extension of the CCB preferably with a connective tunnel, walkways and escalators from the beginning. The CCB ran out of space 35 years ago.
This is TOTALLY unlike Venu or the P & L District in KC or Ballpark Village in STL or the Arena District (a lesser development, done in stages and not as a cohesive development) in Columbus.
Visit this site --- check out the Warehouse District link - to see a real downtown project that will be transformational and exciting: www.starkenterprises.com
(The MSA site should be so lucky)
While I believe that something like Target is needed downtown.. but what people REALLY want is a grocery store that is not O'Malias. When I talk to people I work with who wish they could live downtown.. one of the cons to living downtown is the fact that there is not a large grocery store. (Let's be honest.. if you live in one of the new downtown developments, you probably are not going to drive to the E 10th St Kroger.)
As for the MSA Land.. Pave it.. you could fit more cars in it that way. Also.. if Dennison would charge $1.50 for 3 Hours like the Circle Centre garages.. I wouldn't feel so bad about going to the CCB for a quick errand.
As for competition from a theater, uh, competition is GOOD.
I don't know what to say about MSA. I know there's still PLENTY of HUGE parking lots downtown in very prime areas. I think so long as they don't do something completely stupid, it'll be fine. I'd love to see something really cool there, but we all know how things go when the city gets too involved.
many more projects in the area. They mentioned 480 million for the first phase
I am wondering what the second phase will cost and consist of. By the way took
a tour of Lucas Stadium. The place is going to be great.
But to the project, it sounds interesting to me. and Dwirth, why wouldn't the Indiana Hall of Fame be interesting? Especially considering the large conventions Indy gets, I'm sure someone will be curious as to who's famous from Indiana. I'm pretty sure retail will be in one area of the project, and this hall of fame thing the other; not right by each other.
Maybe it's because you're a dufus.
Plus, they need to be open until 10pm.
And: you have to be able to walk to them.
I know, I'm asking too much. But much as I love him, I'd rather have groceries than a 30-foot high screen of David Letterman.
This will be great if it happens, but don't take these retailer names as gospel.
While I agree the tracks have been a barrier to development south of downtown, why should things remain that way? I hope the stadium sparks even more development down there. And hopefully it is dense and fitting for downtown. Now I guess the questions is whether the new mayor will support such efforts and realize that to encourage private investment he may have to hand out a tax break or two.
The new owner of the half block on the north side of Market could then decide what should be done with that property, subject to the several layers of zoning that would need to be satisfied. Since it would be a smaller site and would not need to bridge Market St. anymore, it could encompass the mixed uses that might be appropriate at that time and could be built in phases so that the developer does not have to be a giant to make it work.
While I am at it, doesn't it make you concerned that many of the alleged development teams for the MSA redevelopment have had previous Democrat Deputy Mayors as a part of the leadership and/or ownership? Does being an ex-Deputy Mayor make you a real estate executive? If I were Ballard, I would avoid such obvious cronyism like the plague. No wonder all of them have so far failed. The development must make economic sense or it will either (1) need massive injections of tax dollars up front, or (2) fail and need massive injections of tax dollars to bail it out. For instance, I estimate the total cost to the City of the Simon Headquarters was about $25 million. Paying someone to build an office building, or shopping center, or condos, should be acceptable to the citizens. Public money should be for public buildings [like the Public Library. Thanks, again].
Ballard does not need to force the issue on the MSA land, and does not need to relocate the Market St./I-65/I70 interchange, either. The grand plan to redo Market St. has so far not worked. Maybe that is because it is unnecessary and cannot support the overwhelming costs to the taxpayers that will be required to force it into being. When the value of the land, in real terms, reaches the right amount, private developers will swoop in and redevelop it with things that are self-supporting. The zoning authorities have tight control over what will be allowed, but they cannot make things work that don't work, so I hope that the new MDC and IHPC members come to their new positions with sufficient business backgrounds to be able to tell the difference. Let's drop the politics and get to the business of making economic sense of our use of the land.
While I am on my soapbox, the lack of progress on the MSA site can be attributed to one word: greed. It seems like everyone from Bart Peterson on down have been a little too greedy in their expectations for this site -- I am not sure that the market is there for the large number of very expensive condos that developers think this site is capable of. Why don't we tone down our expectations and fill in the MSA site with condos like those that are in Lockerbie, Mass Ave, etc-- three or four story townhomes, some apts, some retail, tree-lined streets, etc - you can throw in some 500K to 1M condos, but the majority should be 200 to 400K. Let's get a dose of reality here about how much the market can bear. This is especially true now that the cultural trail's first phase is moving toward completion in the neighbrohood.....if we don';t wake up, we will be waiting a long time for anything to happen on this site.
The project will go up in phases. Developers will not seek tax abatements. They hope to break ground in late 2008 and may open in time for the Holidays in 2010.
http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?s=7340595
It is good to see that solid infill/redevelopment projects continue to be proposed for the area south of the tracks. This should quiet the naysayers who see the tracks as a barrier to development. As i have written before, i think the tracks are an incredible asset when considering future mass transit options and as development spreads south, the tracks will become ever more centrally located.
This project, and a number of other proposed that are located in the southern part of downtown, show that development of these areas are desirable even if they don't get completed because it shows that developers feel that they can turn a profit on this land. This is great news for the areas just outside the innerbelt on the southside. Great historic fabric exists there and the area's crime rate will be reduced with new development. Lots of potential for these neighborhoods.
Jonesman: Just posted a new item on Paramount Tower. Hopefully I'll have renderings in the next few weeks.
http://dig-b.blogspot.com/2007/11/development-legends-district-sodo.html
This project should get tax credits or be developed using a TIF. This will really change the face of downtown and will be another feather in downtown's cap. Maybe the failed proposal for Pan Am plaza (not the InterContinental, but the restaurant idea from a few months back) could be added to this too?
OH...Star Message Boarders, we like it here. Let's keep it that way!
www.legendsdistrict.com
I would love to see those parking lots and fast food joints disappear.