A new anchor for Fall Creek Place?

February 2, 2009
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22nd and Delaware streetsCheck out this rendering of plans for the vacant northeast corner of 22nd and Delaware streets. The two-story project would be built to the sidewalks and include parking in the rear. It is being developed by the not-for-profit King Park Area Development Corp. The group hopes to land a retail tenant for the first floor (they've been in talks with Ace Hardware). For the second floor, they're looking for a restaurant tenant that could take advantage of an outdoor terrace with skyline views. King Park already is accepting construction bids for the roughly $2-million project. The architect, locally based A2SO4, was charged with designing a building that respects, but does not replicate, historic architecture. Did they pull it off? Will this building fit in?
  • Since I live close by, I am happy for any time of development, but as much as I'm sure an Ace would be a success, I would really encourage them to get a grocery store of some type in there. I don't see why it is so difficult to see it is needed...
  • I like it. It takes some ideas from Europe. Add in some modern design, but make sure the layout and design fits its surroundings.
  • This is exactly the type of project Indy needs more of. Bravo!
  • I actually like this style. This is definitely more interesting design compared to the usual boring designs recent developments have implemented around downtown. I agree with Nick though, that a food store seems more sensible than another hardware store. If Ace opened there, wouldn't it be a huge competition for the True Value store in Lockerbie? Maybe? Maybe it won't, because True Value is located in an area dense enough to attract enough customers? Again, a grocery store makes more sense. Sunflower Market would be fantastic.
  • Ideally it would be nice if every neighborhood in Indy had a grocery and hardware store serving it.
  • I hope that isn't a wood-slat facade as that will rot and turn dirty gray after two years.
  • I love the wooden siding mixed with the glass. Very classy!
  • MikeW, there are plenty of materials and innovative treatments that would allow for a wood slat design to be completely viable. You probably are refering to the photos from Chicago that Urbanophile had on his blog - perfect examples of how NOT to approach a project with wood siding. It CAN work...
  • Isn't there already a Kroger store not too far from there? Not to mention The Goose Market. The Sunflower Market concept is gone, aside from the unrelated chain in the SW.
    I hope this project gets off the ground, that area is getting more and more dense. Maybe then Kroger will be able to build the new store they've been talking about for years now.
  • There are empty storefronts in the new retail space at 24th
    and Delaware. Shouldn't those be filled before more development is considered?
    The land (where the old liquor store is now) on the west side of the
    intersection of 24th and Delaware is a prime location for re-development.
    It would be great to condense this type of retail development into a tighter
    area. Also, the re-developed retail center at 24th and Central also has some
    vacancies. The winter farmer's market is doing really well there.
  • A2S04 is a first-class architecture firm, and I'm sure this design would more than enhance its surroundings. This is by far way more appealing than the eyesores that are the tire shop and Church's Chicken. Even if it's not fully leased immediately, it's going to be an improvement. Kudos to King Park for continuing to enhance the Fall Creek Place area!
  • I would love to see more inviting commercial spaces go in along 22nd. I don't know what they're thinking with the design, though. While I would love something like that immediately downtown, this sits among historic homes and looks incredibly out of place. Not that Church's or the tire shop are appropriate, but they're no excuse to continue to build things that look out of place for the surrounding neighborhoods.

    Then again, if they wanted to go build this where the B&B sits instead, I won't care what it looks like.
  • Very nice scale, good work by A2S04. Hardware not a bad idea. Better do it before CVS or Walgreens buys the corner and ruins it! Someone really needs to encourage the Kroger re-do/expansion on 16th. That part of the neighborhood needs the uplift and it is close enough to serve the area's grocery needs.
  • This is great news for the area. I see increased activity already being done at 25th & Central (great farmers market on Saturday's) and the new building at 9th & East.
  • Very nice project. I'd like to understand that enclosure on the north end better. Is that for outdoor storage from Ace? I think there could be a better way, provided the city willing to compromise on its suburban zoning code at this urban location. But otherwise, a definitely thumbs up. Let's hope it gets built.

    The actual material used for those wooden slats is key. This is the make or break element of the project. Done right, it could be awesome. Done poorly, it would compromise the design integrity of the work.
  • Great scale, nice texture. Excellent that the building is up to the sidewalk and parking is hidden. This lot has been sitting vacant since FCP was developed, awaiting retail, and I'm glad it's finally happening. With a new cafe at 24th/Meridian, the Farmers Market at 25th/Central, a local tea and sandwich shop at 22nd/Talbott, and Goose the Market, Salon Orange Moon, a personal trainer, a yoga studio, and a massage/skin studio at 25th/Delaware, Fall Creek Place has come a long way in maturing. Who would ever have thought this type of activity would occur here only 10 years ago!
  • This is a modern interpretation of mid-century modern and I like it very much...

    ...except that it could do without the canopy element at the NW corner. They're popping up everywhere, and this one comes off as really derivative. Much like the mini-Conseco Fieldhouse roofs around town in the last decade...the Conseco Library at 42nd & College, the Conseco Daycare at 21st & Boulevard...

    And this is an area of historic homes? C'mon now. 80% of Fall Creek Place is new. Herron Morton stops at 22nd.
  • This is an interesting style for such a historical area.
    However, I do not mind this sort of architecture if it is replacing nothing nice and the development in the area also has some classic 'revival' styled development.
    I'm curious how attractive this will be in a few years. I welcome the density with open arms.
  • The storefronts at 25th and Delaware are different than this because are live/work space where the ground floor occupant lives above. This appears to be straight commercial. As for the design, I think it fits pretty well. It is modern and sensitive to the historic (just because it is north od 22nd doesn't mean that Herron Morton to the south doesn't add to the context) and new context around it.
  • I agree with Mathew. As I am all for new development in the city, I think that the city focus' too much on new development. I think that there needs to be more redevelopment.. There was so many building in the city that are sitting doing nothing. These buildings could be made over into amazing looking buildings in addition to entirely new buildings being built.

    However, the building above, if it is going to happen it looks AMAZING. I love the more modern look (this city needs it). It would be very nice if they were to put a grocery store there. Marsh is really nice here downtown but we need more grocery stores here in the city. I think that a Whole Foods would be great!
  • I like the proposed use, the height, having multiple tenants and the placement on the site. However, I have problems with the massing and materials.

    The signage canopy projects out to reinforce the street plane, which allows the actual building to sit further away from the street. This is nice, psychologically, for pedestrians and allows for better sidewalks and landscaping -- a great idea to promote neighborhood retail traffic.

    The corner massing seems weak. This sits on a busy intersection so I would place the main massing on the opposite end, at the street corner. This would also allow for stronger signage, a more recognizable image to consumers and a better landmark for the neighborhood. In fairness, it is a strange intersection, but I think the layout can still be improved.

    Yes, the roof thing has been done before, but I don’t think this invalidates it. The large amount of glass at the street level is nice but it could have more. The upper level could definitely use more. Something about the street level doesn’t look right. Maybe it’s the planting bed between the sidewalk and the façade. It’s beginning to look too suburban for the area, but that could be due to artistic liberties taken in this rendering.

    Finally, the wood slats seem out of place. If the architect is trying to be sympathetic to the wood siding of the nearby housing, I think he/she could achieve the same effect with masonry and colored mortar. A “harder” material is probably more appropriate for this location.
  • I generally agree with MDB, especially about the need for significant mass right at the corner. However, one potential problem is that there is already a significant Fall Creek Place monument in the raised round planting bed that sits on the refuge island; it is ghosted in the rendering but it would definitely impact the building corner.

    Honestly, it's tough to tell from the rendering whether it's alternating dark-and-light brick or horizontal siding on the ground level. Obviously brick would have higher first cost but probably lower life cost than wood.
  • How about a door? Preferably at the corner, anywhere along one of the streets would be a plus. Will this be like the proposed CVS at 16th & Meridian, with pedestrian access only from the parking lot?

    If the building is going to be set back, as it definitely appears along 22nd Street, then the sidewallk should be moved back from the street curb, or widened all the way back to the building. Oh but wait, there's a structure extending out from the building along 22nd Street. What is that? Screening of a loading dock?
  • I am really diggin this design, it reminds me of buildings that I've seen in Scottsdale or San Diego. Very cool!!
  • Interesting and not surprising to see so many requests for a grocery store. One of the reasons, I suspect, that grocery stores have yet to take off in this area is that it is still perceived as inner city. Despite the steady gentrification taking place, Herron-Morton and Fall Creek place are in close proximity to some neighborhoods such as Martindale and Brightwood with high levels of poverty. Such neighborhoods always struggle to get major grocery stores in any city because of the prohibitively high insurance costs. These stores tend to be shoplifters' paradise (far more so than a specialty market like The Goose which can more easily monitor these things) and major grocers such as Kroger or Marsh will end up passing the insurance costs on in a manner of forms: 1) they charge higher prices for goods (unlikely in an area with many low income people) 2) they spend far less on appearance and maintenance of the store (the more likely reason, thus explaining why the Kroger on 16th is so scuzzy). It's an unfortunate reality, but a similar neighborhood in Philadelphia--actually perhaps bigger extremes of gentrifying rich next to urban poor--only achieved high quality grocers through urban enterprise zone designations.

    Best of luck, because a grocery is definitely needed in the area, but they don't come easily in iffy neighborhoods.
  • Sassafras, I don’t mean to sound rude because I am sure you have the best of intentions, however I believe it is people with an attitude that you have in your post that make this city feel like it is poor or that a grocery store wouldn’t come here due to shop-lifters. Yes of course a bigger city like Philadelphia would be more attractive for any store/invertor, however look at the size of that city next to Indy.

    I think that if the older generation (the ones who have seen Indy in the 80's and 90's as a place that you didn’t want to go visit or think about living in; as well as younger people who think Indy is boring and not a real city...) would simply acknowledge how it has grown and its ability to grow, that the city and it inventors would be more inclined to take a chance in an area that is poor or under developed. Positive attitudes create positive outcomes!
  • We live in the neighborhood and thrilled to have a new development soon!

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  1. why oh why does this state continue to elect these people....do you wonder how much was graft out of the 3.8 billion?

  2. i too think this is a great idea. I think the vision and need is there as well. But also agree with Wendy that there may be better location in our city to fulfill this vision and help grow the sports of hockey and figure skating in Indy. Also to help further develop other parts of the city that seem often forgotten. Any of the other 6 townships out side of the three northernmost could benefit greatly from a facility and a vision like this. For a vision that sounds philanthropic, the location is appears more about the money. Would really like to see it elsewhere, but still wish the development the best of luck, as we can always use more ice in the city. As for the Ice growth when they return, if schedules can be coordinated with the Fuel, what could be better than to have high level hockey available to go see every weekend of the season? Good luck with the development and the return of the Ice.

  3. How many parking spaces do they have at Ironworks? Will residents have reserved spaces or will they have to troll for a space among the people that are there at Ruth Chris & Sangiovese?

  4. You do not get speeding ticket first time you speed and this is not first time Mr.Page has speed. One act should not define a man and this one act won't. He got off with a slap on the wrist. I agree with judge no person was injured by his actions. The state was robbed of money by paying too much rent for a building and that money could have been used for social services. The Page family maybe "generous" with their money but for most part all of it is dirty money that he obtained for sources that are not on the upright. Page is the kind of lawyer that gives lawyers a bad name. He paid off this judge like he has many other tine and walked away. Does he still have his license. I believe so. Hire him to get you confiscated drug money back. He will. It will cost you.

  5. I remain amazed at the level of expertise of the average Internet Television Executive. Obviously they have all the answers and know the business inside and out.