Another delay for MSA

September 4, 2007
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MSA ProposalHopes for a quick decision on who will redevelop the Market Square Arena site are quickly fading. City officials had promised a decision by July at the latest, but the political climate has changed. Mayor Bart Peterson's priorities are focused elsewhere. "To be honest, my personal attention is focused 100 percent on property taxes and crime," Peterson said. "It's not a priority of mine to sit down with our team and push [MSA redevelopment]." A rendering of one of two proposals is at right. The other is here. Check out the full story here. What do you think?
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  • I am comfortable with the wait. Not only does it need to be the right proposal, the decision needs to be made in the right political climate, and this is just not it.

    As a resident of downtown, I certainly welcome the addition of retail, specifically Target, but I cannot help to wonder if something more mixed use like a mini-Venu, wouldn't better served the area. I think the pipe dream of a performing arts center is not viable, but surely, someone can come up with something interesting that will attract people to that side of downtown. I know Target and some specialized retail will go a long way towards that, but what about something like Louisville's 4th Street Live! that could really create a reason to go there without detracting from the hub around Circle Centre?
  • It's purely political, like the article states. I don't blame him. I'm more worried about the negative effect the current tax situation will have on proposed public transit for the NE corridor.

    Perhaps he's talking Venu's developer into relocating? ;-) That's the kind of development we should see at MSA.

    I vote for Kosene & Kosene. What does everyone else think?
  • bart lies

    how can you believe a thing that bart says
    if you believe him then you must believe that we are saving money with the poice consolidation too.

    just keep letting bart off the hook and see how low this city gets
  • I get tired of the Bart Lies posts. It is much easier to be a negative voice than to actually do something progressive to change things. Do I think Bart has been perfect, no, but I do think he has done a lot to bring this city kicking and screaming into the present. Can there be more done? Can someone else possibly do it better? Yes, of course. However, until you have been Mayor for 8 years and dealt with people like yourself, then please keep your unrelated comments to a minimum....though, of course, by commenting, I have gone off topic as well.

    Anyway, I would love something like Venu downtown. The only thing that probably couldn't work would be the 5000 seat theater just because of the proximity to the Murat, but I think with the favorable highway access (even with the moved exit on Market), there could be something truly regional put in there.
  • I just fell out of my chair!! Venu at the MSA site??? You folks are nuts!! The reason Venu will be such a success is because the location!! Keystone Crossing market demo is far superior to D-town! FAR SUPERIOR from every angle.

    Too often on this site people are forgetting why developers build what they build. It's the freaking market! The guys who try and build something and then create the market get their @$$'s handed to them!

    I'm not saying I like it one bit but Indy is not a high rise market and won't be for 10 to 20 years! D-town doesn't have enough of the right kind of population or jobs to draw that population to support a Venu!

    Until we have a literal explosion of knowledge based, high paying, high tech, etc jobs in our CBD we can forget about it. There aren't enough empty nesters willing to move into a 2000sf 500k condo downtown to make it happen and most yuppies cannot afford that price point.

    JOBS JOBS JOBS!!!!! ,some affordable for sale and some new luxury rental stock.

    Thanks for letting me rant!
  • I think this has less to do with politics and more to do with economics. The condo and residential markets have busted and the financial market that loans the money for these types of projects are in trouble. This allows everyone not to admit the market conditions are not currently able to make this project happen.
  • not a bart fan, please return to the indystar forums. thanks.
  • The MSA site should be utilized more than what it has already planned. I was so excited about the first towers that were purposed on the site that were 32 stories! The downtown market could use much more than just a Target and some retail. Something more on the lines of Kansas City's Power and light district! People want to be downtown, but they don't like buying without seeing what they are getting! Hopefully this will end up a plus for MSA.
  • I'm all for the wait. Hopefully it will lead to a more High Rise design for the site. No need to run into something as under-whelming as these 2 proposals.
  • How was my statements not related to this post? It is talking about POLITICS. Why should the whold city suffer because the mayor doesnt think this is the best political climate(FOR HIM?)

    Why dont we just quit doing everything until after the mayor is done running his campaign. Bart gets away with murder in this town and you idiots are either too stupid or on his payroll to see the light. The police merger is not saving money and the mayor's answer to that is to raise our taxes. This property has been vacant for too long. Its time to move on and not wait until the mayors little friends make the right deal for the project (under the table.)
    Thanks for the idea to goto the stars forums, but I think Im happy here.
  • Bart lies is getting old. Look, we are sorry you lost your job, but its time to move forward. Maybe you can get a job at the new IKEA store???
  • you wont see IKEA here because Im sure they are smart enough to see through Barts Lies. Either that or because they wont play Barts game and line his pockets.
  • Yes, it's politics, but Bart has been the best mayor this city has had in years. Who wants to go back to the Goldsmith days? Spare us that calamity. We're just paying for Goldsmith's inactions. But another problem with MSA site it seems to me, is the location, what with the police headquarters across the street. Might that not be a reason condos haven't sold there, high rise or not?
  • you're kind of weird, not a fan of bart. sorry, but you are. proabably a little bit obsessed, too.
  • oops - i mean not a bart fan
  • you are sofa king cool BArt FAN.....
  • People like to cry a lot about Indianapolis politics. Stop crying about taxes already!
  • ...and you idiots are either too stupid...

    not a bart fan, share your opinions, but this kind of childish name-calling isn't constructive and I think most people here would rather it didn't become the norm on this board.
  • (bart) lies
    (mitch) lies
    (toupee turtle) lies
    (W) lies
    (Hillary) lies

    So what? This isn't news to anyone.

    My take about the DEVELOPMENT - maybe it's time to abandon the market-shaping and think about the best use of this municipally owned property. Like maybe a really massive PARK? You could create an awesome downtown park like nowhere else in this country. Sculpture garden, reflecting pools, spoken-word amphitheatre, a hub for the cultural trail, etc., etc., etc. Maybe by creating an amenity like that, then the MARKET will decide to construct and build retail, office, hotel, residential all around it?
  • no more parks! we have enough parks in downtown. we need development in our suburban downtown.
  • Some sort of development that includes a grocer would be nice.

    I was thinking more along the lines of a Fresh Market or a Trader Joe's, but a Super Target would suffice. I'm tired of driving to the suburbs to buy groceries when I could walk to a downtown store. O'Malia's is overpriced and their selection stinks, and the nearest Kroger isn't exactly in an area that I'm crazy about spending any more time in than a red light requires.

    While they're at it, maybe they could knock down the old Bank One tech center that has become an open air toilet and something of a refugee camp. Unfortunately, as long as everyone is up in arms about property taxes and tax abatements for businesses, these lots will sit idle.
  • Enough parks? You're kidding me right!
  • The real terrible thing is, both these developers have financing in place and ready to go, they just need to know who wins. I am so damn tired of waiting for these two lots to be developed. Just pick a winner and lets build!!

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  1. what Steve is doing and if he is on another radio station. That is the station I will listen to.

  2. From the story: "The city of Indianapolis also will consider tax incentives and funding for infrastructure required for the project, according to IEDC." Why would the City need to consider additional tax incentives when Lowe's has already bought the land and reached an agreement with IEDC to bring the jobs? What that tells me is that the City has already pledged the incentives, unofficially, and they just haven't had time to push it through the MDC yet. Either way, subsidizing $10/hour jobs is going to do nothing toward furthering the Mayor's stated goal of attracting middle and upper-middle class residents to Marion County.

  3. Ron Spencer and the entire staff of Theater on the Square embraced IndyFringe when it came to Mass Ave in 2005. TOTS was not only a venue but Ron and his friends created, presented and appeared in shows which embraced the 'spirit of the fringe'. He's weathered all the storms and kept smiling ... bon voyage and thank you.

  4. Not sure how many sushi restaurants are enough, but there are three that I know of in various parts of downtown proper and all are pretty good.

  5. Rick, how does granting theright to marry to people choosing to marry same-sex partners harm the lives of those who choose not to? I cannot for the life of me see any harm to people who choose not to marry someone of the same sex. We understand your choice to take the parts of the bible literally in your life. That is fine but why force your religious beliefs on others? I'm hoping the judges do the right thing and declare the ban unconstitutional so all citizens of Wisconsin and Indiana have the same marriage rights and that those who chose someone of the same sex do not have less rights than others.

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