Fun with renderings & Walmart

July 1, 2008
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BrothersCheck out the proposed look for Brothers Bar & Grill in Broad Ripple (reported here in December). Keystone Construction has been awarded the contract to renovate the space at 910 Broad Ripple Ave., which currently is occupied by an awards shop. The restaurant/bar is scheduled to open later this year. The designer is Rottmann Architects.

JustusMeridian Real Estate is marketing a new medical office building in Carmel for Justus Homes. The 40,000-square-foot building is proposed for the entrance to the Pro Med Office Park at U.S. 31 and Old Meridian Street. Justus may take 8,000 square feet in the building. The city of Carmel already has approved the two-story limestone building.

New Wal-Mart logoAnd finally, in a bit of a tangent, I'm curious to know what you think of Wal-Mart's new logo. They're changing it for the first time since 1992, and plan to incorporate it at all of their stores (hence, a real-estate connection). They're losing the dash and no longer capitalizing the "M" in Mart. I've posted the old and new looks at right. The world's largest retailer also has posted a timeline showing the logo's evolution. What do you think?
  • hmm, their new logo looks straight out of the 60s or 70s to me. I like the old logo much better...Not that anything they would put on the front of their stores would ever get me to step foot in one of their stores....
  • That Carmel structure would probably look a lot better if it was up to the sidewalk and had slate instead of that asphalt stuff.
    Big deal for Wal-Mart.
    When they start purchasing locally grown goods and stop draining local business I will be more inclined to enjoy shopping there.
  • I still dont like Walmart and never will.

    I am excited for the Broad Ripple project.

    Carmel. eh......
  • I like the Broad Ripple project too... Even if the whole design of it looks a bit faux pas.

    However, they do have outdoor seating which is nice! Add some trees & it would be better.
  • I'm not the first to say this, but Walmart's new starburst bears a strong resemblance to a certain famous Vonnegut drawing.
  • Erich I believe it looks faux because its an original early 20th century commercial building.
  • Erich, what do you mean by faux pas? If you mean to say faux historic or something along those lines, think again. The building has always looked that way since it was built in the 1910s or 20s or something. The only obvious change is the restoration of the windows.
  • The new Walmart logo reminds me of the logo for a store I remember shopping at with my mom when I was a kid.... put that star thingy on the other side and it is very much giving me Zayres...... thats the first thing I thought of when I saw it and I hadn't even thought of Zayres in probably 20 years!

    The Carmel building is blah.......
  • To hell with Walmart bring back Zayres!!!
  • Both of those logos epitomize Walmart: Generic, Cheap, and Corporate

    The Brothers renovation looks fine, except for one minor niggle: The awning should match the curve of the corner. It's all in the details folks.

    Carmel... yawn.
  • Marshall...that is so funny because Zayres was also the first thing I thought of (and yeah it's been at least 20 years). Scary stuff!!
  • Wow, I thought I would be the only one who said that it reminded me of the Zayres logo. Talk about a blast from the past!
  • Almost everyone changes their logo every so often... Look at Pepsi, Coke, and Google as three major names. Pepsi had the lines through their logo in the early 90's, Google is changing their icon picture in the tool bar to show a lower case g instead of the usual upper case G. Coke really hasn't changed their logo, per se, but they sure have changed the look of the bottle to fit the times.

    Remember the Old Apple Logo? It use to be just an apple (bitten into like today) with the colors of the rainbow instead of the current blue.

    I may not like Walmart*, but atleast I will give them props for trying to get people to start looking at them again via the looks of their name.
  • The Walmart logo reminded me of the old Ayre Way stores we had in Fort Wayne. They later became Targets. They also may have been affiliated with Zayres.
  • Ayr-Way was a division of LS Ayres until sold to Target.

    The walmart* looks very Euro to me, which is odd considering their lack of success in Europe.

    The Brothers building storefront corner is a clipped angle below the curved parapet, and that's where the awning mounts. IMO, a curved awning would only make sense if it were affixed to the parapet. Details, indeed.
  • I think the new walmart logo works very well considering their new campaign of Save Money, Live Better. The new logo is much softer and more cozy than their old ALL CAPS corporate logo.

    You may not like walmart, but I definitely think this is a step in the right direction for them.
  • Its funny how nobody on this site can muster the courage to actually say something nice about a design in Carmel. Oh my gawd, its in the suburbs, yucky! I'm sure comments like these will ensure your good-standing in the downtown hipster club.
  • what?? Many people here have been effusive in their praise of their praise of new urbanist developments in Carmel. I remember one poster who was up in arms about the Fresh Market at 54th and College, while praising development in Carmel.
  • Funny.... lets not be melodramatic here. The posters to this board are constantly praising development in Carmel. Not every project there is going to be a homerun. Quite frankly, this building is just very typically ordinary.... is that redundant?
  • Does anyone else get the sense that Wal-Mart is changing the logo to look a little bit more like Target?
  • Have any of you actually done work (Architecture) in Carmel... this is what they require. The ADLS board is one of the toughest to get through and this is why you see this type of Architecture all over Carmel.
  • MGD guy, wouldn't it look better if it was up to the sidewalk with parking the back though?
    It would make it seem more elegant and land markish.
    Eh but that could be my own tastes.
  • Who knows? Maybe that is the back of the building shown there. I reckon Carmel actually takes an interest in what the back of a building looks like also, after they get done reviewing the front. I think Carmel is just peachy. I wish Indy leadership realized just how far behind Carmel they are, and how they will continue to fall further and further behind Carmel if they don't take design into account in approving projects, especially in their urban neighborhoods.
  • Indianapolis does have something Carmel does not.
    The classics they all so often try to re-create, Indianapolis has the originals! ;)
  • Original what?

    Urban neighborhoods that have mostly been demo'd and replaced with garbage like the Walgreen's & CVS at 16th & Meridian?
  • AMEN Socrates, Amen!!!!
  • The Carmel Project was not conducive to pushing it to the street as the site location is not in a downtown sitting, but when applicable I would always recomend the street front approach as that is my preference.
  • I'm talking about places like West Clay that try to recreate something like the Old Northside or their downtown desperately trying to recreate the wholesale district.
    But I guess all of those places have been replaced with walgreen's! =]
  • socrates#1fan, what would you rather have Carmel build, more Avon style strip malls and vinyl villages?

    People whine when Carmel builds urban. They whine when Carmel builds suburban.
  • 1. Nice to see an older building restored and reused.

    2. Looks like a Vinyl Village McMance has sex with a 465 Dollar Inn and this was the off spring. Why do I see Value engineering in this building?

    3. Walmart * goes retro. looks like somebody in Bentonville thinks this is a Hip new logo. ya 20 years ago!!!!!

    MMMM, I bet it’s some type of ‘NOTE’, like down at the bottom of the sign. There a small sentence that says. ‘*Not responsible for the quality of our products’
  • Indy,
    I'm all for use of older classic styles but heres the thing.
    Thats a cheap way of doing it. I don't see any ornate details or even a decent cornice.
    The sign on the front of the building is also a major violation of classic design.
    I think what Carmel is doing is great and I think they should by all means continue their classic urbanism movement.
    I am just saying when comparing the two cities Carmel doesn't stand a chance in architecture because it is building classics 80 years after Indianapolis finished building classics.
  • Downtown Broad Ripple would be incredibly well-served with some street trees! But the sidewalks are too I think we should narrow the driving lanes to make room.

    That Carmel building is a huge piece of crap, I don't care if it's built in the suburbs or on the Circle, either way, it's a turd. I could give anyone 30 reasons why, but I'm tired, so I'll stick to just a couple: as socrates said, no cornice detailing. The balcony floors are too thin and they appear to jut out with no apparent support; this is a Modern detail, not Classical or French or whatever this thing is striving to be. The entry portal seems a little Greek (why?), and the circle (window?) in it is too small, or perhaps it's that the (EIFS) field in which it floats is too big, enhanced by the broken cornice line below where the building's name has slipped in as a sort of faux-beam. There is no sense of mass to the masonry, as the windows sit close to the surface and betray the thinness of the wall below. Because the base of the building has no mass, the mansard appears top heavy. The whole thing is graceless and clunky.

    If you're going to make something in a historic style (why would anyone want to? Why can't this be a contemporary building? Don't the users of this medical facility want to be treated by contemporary medical methods and techniquess, not historic ones? Anyone for a bleed?), at least do it well; don't just make it histor-icky.
  • Great point Donna!
    I think a lot of people prefer classic because it sort of sits more elegantly and tends to age well, this is obviously like you said, histor-icky! Ha-ha.
  • Yes, I sure wish there was some way to fit some trees into the Broad Ripple streetscape. It's just so harsh now.
    Pots aren't the answer. Is there any way an esplanade could work? Other ideas?
  • BR Ave has already been narrowed from four lanes to three with curb parking, so in theory there's room for a raised esplanade in some place a la 38th St. and that's the idea I'd support as long as it's part of a consistent city-wide design theme (hat tip to Urbanophile).

    Planting shade trees in tight quarters (in cutouts or newly-created tree lawns along the sidewalk) is a bad idea: bad for merchants (whose signage and presence is reduced in the eyes of passersby), bad for building owners (who have rake leaves off of flat roofs and clean out alleys), bad for infrastructure (as maturing trees grow, their roots push up streets and sidewalks and also seek out sewers and water lines), and bad for the trees (too little soft surface around their roots will lead to stunted growth and premature death and disease).
  • Hmmm. The new Walmart logo looks very close to the Genworth logo, and is almost dead on (speaking of Apple) to the spinning symbol my Mac displays while I'm waiting for it to start up in the morning. Perhaps it is a graphic representation of a countdown clock as you count the minutes standing in line because only two of the 42 checkout lanes are open.
  • Oops, I just realized the text on the medical office building says it's actually limestone; the rendering sure looks like EIFS. I'm guessing the cladding at the first floor level is limestone, and EIFS above. Which further begs the question why is there no water table at the base?

    So it's at least partly limestone, good. But that doesn't change the proportions, mass, stance, or appropriateness of this building.

    Also: limestone can be used - gracefully, elegantly, and appropriately - in a modern or contemporary design.

    People like it isn't reason enough for a building to look historicky. People like smoking too, should they do it? The job of doctors is to teach patients what is good for them AND WHY. This architect feels that in the realm of the built world that is my role as well.
  • The problem with modern or contemporary design is that it's only modern or contemporary for a short time. I'm sure people thought the City-County Building in Indianapolis was Modern / Contemporary when they tore down the Historic courthouse. I think classic styles are better as they stand the test of time. The city and suburbs are littered with failed modern designs from the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's. What is in style today and looks good today will be tomorrow's eye sore.
  • That faux-historic building is based on a style that WAS CONTEMPORARY IN ITS TIME.

    Copied today, copied poorly, it's an eyesore. And will continue to be. Any educated eye will see so.

    The City-County building has lovely proportions, an elegant simplicity of materials, and spoke of a time when people were optimistic about the future. What are we afraid of today?
  • Donna you seem like a modernist. Haha
    If anyone can say the city-county building is elegant(especially compared to what it replaced) must be a modernist haha.
  • What really irks the living hell out of me is that in Carmel they actually have a housing development called Lockerbie designed after Indy's very own charming urban neighborhood, if that's not truly awful i dont know what is!

    p.s. i dunno about you but i would MUCH rather live in the original Lockerbie!
  • socrates I'm a Modernist but not a strict one; I'm a bigger believer in appropriateness, and when I do additions/renovations to people's houses I try to make work that is appropriate. A Craftsman Bungalow is going to get a very different response than a Colonial. That said, neither of them will get a Modern addition OR a faux-historic one. You can't recreate history and shouldn't want to, but you can do a re-interpretation of the goals and values of the existing historic architecture in a way that uses the cultural mores and construction technologies of the present.

    The City/County building is elegantly PROPORTIONED. The proportions - of solid/void, height/width, etc. - of a Modern building are and should be different from the proportions of a Tudor or Greek Revival. To an educated eye, when those proportions are wrong, it's as glaringly uncomfortable and ugly as would be a bad nose job to a skilled plastic surgeon.
  • Donna,

    Does one need an educated eye or architecural erudition to discern a bad nose job? Or can any ol' lay person tell?
  • Bad nose job = Neoclassical-style entry and New Orleans-style balconies grafted onto Second Empire-inspired building.

    It would almost be okay if the entry were a Second Empire tower form with the round window in a mansard roof. It would at least be consistent.
  • The trophy shop has already moved from the broad ripple location so there should be some renovating avtivity there soon for Brothers Grill.

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  1. To compare Connor Prairie or the Zoo to a random old house is a big ridiculous. If it were any where near the level of significance there wouldn't be a major funding gap. Put a big billboard on I-69 funded by the tourism board for people to come visit this old house, and I doubt there would be any takers, since other than age there is no significance whatsoever. Clearly the tax payers of Fishers don't have a significant interest in this project, so PLEASE DON'T USE OUR VALUABLE MONEY. Government money is finite and needs to be utilized for the most efficient and productive purposes. This is far from that.

  2. I only tried it 2x and didn't think much of it both times. With the new apts plus a couple other of new developments on Guilford, I am surprised it didn't get more business. Plus you have a couple of subdivisions across the street from it. I hope Upland can keep it going. Good beer and food plus a neat environment and outdoor seating.

  3. I was visiting Indianapolis last month, and I was really, really surprised at how many panhandlers in Indy used signs. I currently live in Knoxville, and probably only one in 20 has a sign. They're still there panhandling, just no sign. I think I prefer the signs.

  4. For the record - the Kincaid's also own and operate the Fishers Banquet Center in the 96th & I-69 quadrant. The facility is mediocre at best. And there was a recent article stating they filed bankruptcy. Why are we wasting more money on a property just because it's a certain age to a family who can't run a business without running it to the ground and filing bankruptcy? I don't live in Hamilton County any more but if I still did I wouldn't have put any money towards them. It's a waste. Bull doze it down. The Kincaid's want the money to fund them for their mishaps with filing bankruptcy.

  5. Any estimated opening dates for Giordanno's?