IRL TV ratings down, optimism up

April 8, 2009
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IRLTVThe Nielsen ratings for the first Indy Racing League race Sunday in St. Petersburg were down 60 percent from the same race a year ago. The 2009 St. Petersburg race was the season kick-off, and the first race on cable channel Versus. Last year, the race was on ESPN.

Total viewership dropped from 575,000 households last year to 233,000 this year, according to New York-based Nielsen Media Research.

“This is a number Versus research predicted, so there’s no surprise here,” said IRL spokesman John Griffin. “The fact is, when things on TV are slow, Versus is not a channel people surf onto the way they do with ESPN. We know the work we have ahead of us. The Versus ad campaign just started, so hopefully that gets us some traction.”

Household viewership did spike from a .3 rating to a .4 during the last laps of the race.

“This is just one early-season race, and there’s no reason to judge the entire relationship on this race,” said Tim Frost, president of Frost Motorsports, a Chicago-based motorsports business consultancy.

Technically, Frost gave the production good marks. “The number of cameras they used was very solid, as was the production quality and the commentary,” he said.

IRL officials said there was plenty of upside to the opening week. Griffin said feedback from racing fans that did watch the season opener was better than 90 percent positive.

“We couldn't be happier with our opening week of race coverage on Versus,” said Charlie Morgan, president and chief operating officer for IMS Productions. “Versus’ commitment was to super-serve [IRL] fans and based on the response we have seen from our fans they are thrilled with the amount and quality of coverage available to them throughout the weekend.”

“We just have to do a better job of helping people find Versus and letting them know what Versus is capable of doing,” Griffin added.

Frost said Versus has a track record for building sports properties’ viewership. “Versus has consistently [increased] the ratings of NHL games, and I expect the same with the IRL,” Frost said.
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  • I tried to watch for a little while to see how far into the race Danica would crash, ONLY KIDDING!, but the ads with the guys beating the bejesus out of each other was a little too much to take.
  • Some CCWS goes to Spike and its bad. EARL goes to Reversus, and it good? :eek:


    C'mon, lets get real. The move to Reversus was the only move they could make. Speed didn't want it, ESPN didn't want it, and none of the majors wanted it....


    Thanks again for everything Tony, what year of the Vi$ion$ are we on again? :shakeshead:
  • DaHooey = ICS Forum/Blog Troll

    Why do you even bother to follow the stories? You clearly seek them out. Wouldn't it be nice if you could find enjoyment in the racing and move on. Instead, you'll be grumpy for all eternity, wallowing in what was. Tony G. could pass on ownership, the series could mimic F1, and 700,000 people could pack IMS, but somehow I think you'd still find something wrong.

    I'm still laughing that you thought that somehow the F1 race in Malaysia was great. I'm a huge F1 fan, and that assessment couldn't be further from the truth.
  • John Griffin and Charlie Morgan are lying ...
  • I refuse to believe these numbers. These guys need to provide a link.
  • Common sense told you there was going to be a viewership drop going to VS. Same thing happened when IRL went to ESPN and ESPN 2 from network for some races. I think the big test is to see how the numbers go the rest of the season. If the IRL is smart they would find some way of advertising VS. at IMS in the month of May. Is VS. carrying any practices in May? I will say everyone I talked to liked the coverage. Much better, much longer and more comprehensive. It will be interesting to see if the fans follow.

    I do not think many made fun of c?rt/ccws/owrs went to Spike, although it has as much to do with sports as the Food Network does, we made fun of them when they went to the infomercial on CBS and then added such fab racing features as push to pass and special tires.
  • Indyman, and all other interested, this is what VS will do in May:
    Versus' May programming will include coverage from noon-6:30 p.m. for each of the Indianapolis 500 qualifying days: Pole Day on Saturday, May 9; Second Day Qualifying on Sunday, May 10; Third Day Qualifying on Saturday, May 16; and Bump Day on Sunday, May 17. The network also will feature five hours of uninterrupted and continuous coverage of Miller Lite Carb Day from 11 a.m.-4 p.m. Friday, May 22, featuring the final, one-hour practice for the elite, 33-car Indianapolis 500 field, the annual Pit Stop Challenge and the Firestone Freedom 100 race for the Firestone Indy Lihts.

    Immediately following the Indianapolis 500 on May 24, VERSUS will air a live post-race show featuring in-depth trackside analysis of all the action that unfolded during the race.
  • To John Howard,
    What numbers don't you believe? I will be happy to provide you what I have from Nielsen. What else is there?
  • Hi Anthony,

    I'm a little bit confused.

    According to Nielsen total number of U.S. television households for the 2008-2009 TV season has grown to 114.5 million. So 1% of that is 1,145,000 households.

    0,30 rating points ---> 343,500 housholds *2,5 (average number of family members in 2009) ---> 858,750 viewer.

    The IndyCar website says VERSUS' race coverage was watched by more than 2 million viewers... it seems not correct.

    Let's make this clear, please.

    Thanks,
    spedway
  • Why wouldn't a media insider like John Howard have the numbers?
  • Spedway, You have to take into account the number of cable systems, thus the number of households Versus reaches. Right now, Versus' total universe is not as large as bigger cable channels (ESPN, et al) carried by more cable providers (and on lower cable tiers which reach more homes). Remember, these are Nielsen's numbers, not mine. But I believe, given their track record, they are very reliable. As far as the 2 million number, I think they are including programming beyond merely the race, and perhaps beyond U.S. borders. That gets tricky. I'll try to get further clarification on that. Thanks, as always, for reading.
  • The numbers are the numbers plain and simple ... Fewer viewers ... VERSUS was a bad move, period. Spin it all you want IRL, the numbers are terrible ... Face it, the IRL is a third rate sport at best, on par with bowling or professional bull riding.

    Am I upset about it?, no, not at all. I hope the whole thing implodes so we can re-start AOW from scratch. Scorched Earth policy. Time to let it die and we can all move on.
  • Thank you!

    I'm curious - and problably not just me - how the IndyCar website counted 3.4 million viewers for the weekend (and Monday)... I would be the most happiest person if it's actually true. :)

    http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=13537

    One interesting note: in the Netherlands the race broadcasted live in primetime and watched more than 200,000 people. I assume IndyCar has a strong international fan base, especially in Canada and Europe. Little bit off topic, but I cannot understand that Eurosport/Eurosport 2 why not broadcasting IndyCar in Europe or ESPN International why not pushing a deal with Eurosport which channel reaches almost every households in Europe part of the basic cable packages...
  • It's all CART's fault - Tony will fix everything.
  • Have you verified the numbers with Nielsen yourself? I think you're confusing average viewers v.s. average households, if the number we've heard for the St. Pete race last year is correct (Nielsen rating of 0.42).

    If your first number is the correct household viewership on avg. for the St. Pete, then the Nielsen rating for the St. Pete race would have been around a 0.6 (ESPN is on in approx. 95 million homes, so we get 950,000 for a 1.0 HH rating and we can divide 575,000/950,000 ~= 0.6).

    The Nielsen number of 0.3 matches up pretty well with your household viewership number for VERSUS (Versus is on in 75 million homes, so if we take that number times 0.003 we get 225k households, which matches up).

    If you got the Nielsen numbers from Sports Business Daily, they sourced the numbers from a blog named Sports Media Watch, who got the numbers from an IRL fanblog, who got the numbers from the notoriously unreliable autoracing1.com
  • HOley cows. I was fraid no one woud wathc. I did an I am proud to be one of them LIke the MArines, The PRoud, The few.
  • Couldn't be happier??? Is that the quote?

    Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the spin zone! In what mass marketing, tv-watchin' world is that a good thing? Notice it comes from someone PAID to put the spin on the splat.

    Whatever the merits of the coverage, the race, or the IRL, those numbers are dreadful. Put a spin on that.
  • ZERO POINT TWO! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    Indyboi and Berwick girl try to spin that!
  • I didn't watch because the IRL has turned into CART part II. Except for all of the oval races, the IRL is a complete copy of CART. More and more obscure foreign drivers. More and more boring road and street races. Less and less competition. Fewer and fewer teams capable of winning. And now it even has the same TV ratings as CART had. The days of people being able to watch the local boys make good in the big leagues ( you know, the thing that drives popularity) have been missing in open wheel for twenty years. NASCAR cornered that market in the early 1990's, and I wonder how NASCAR's ratings have done since then?

    It's a good thing that Tony George started the IRL in 1996 so people would have someone to blame for the massive drop in national interest for open wheel racing. Of course he could have somewhat saved open wheel if he'd instead used his money to start a ten car team with all American drivers. He wouldn't have lost any more money that he has with the IRL and right now open wheel racing might at least be one-third as popular as NASCAR. But then who would people blame for that comparatively smaller drop in interest?

    Would the last no-name foreigner to take a lap in an open wheel car please turn out the lights?
  • Thank you all for some good laffs.


    Anthoney, this is not going well for Team Tony. Would you PLEASE write something about the BS complete FAILure that IRL has completed here? Remember when Tony said we are gong to be bigger than F1 and NASCAR in 5 years? dood - that was 2002. :lol:

    heck, they are even worse than they were themselves 10 years ago...
  • I blame C^RT!
  • IRL/Tony failure?...

    What about CART/Champ Car? I guess it's dead... :)
  • The facts (no spin):

    2008, St. Pete (ESPN2)
    Overnight HH rating: 0.42 --> 575,000 households --> 1,437,500 viewers

    2009, St. Pete (VERSUS)
    Overnight HH rating: 0.30 --> 233,000 households --> 582,500 viewers

    Cutted third but it was predicted.
    The VERSUS coverage is excellent, 100 times better than ESPN's.
  • Thanks for the info Anthony.

    The consensus seems to be that the coverage for the race was excellent. That it was of high quality and in depth. I think that is the gamble the IRL took. They saw the direction ABC/ESPN was going. Little coverage outside of the race, little promotion etc.... Some of the same things that killed c?rt/owrs/ccws. So the IRL has hooked up with Vs. for better or for worse. I think with the extensive, I dare say unprecedented, coverage that Vs. will provide, many fans will not only find where the races are, but will enjoy the expanded coverage. Time will only tell if this was a good idea or not, but if the coverage is any indicator, they have a good shot of making this work. Let us wait and see.
  • Anthony, it would be interesting to know the percentage drop the NHL took when it left ESPN for Versus and now how they have fared over the past couple of years.

    Something else to consider with the Versus deal. People don't just watch a program when it is aired the first time. Now with re-runs and so many other places to view a tv program (itunes, hulu, youtube etc. etc.), that more expanded coverage and better production will also have many more outlets for people to view IndyCar programs.
  • Thanks for all the comments. And one last time, all the numbers I used in my report come directly from Nielsen Media Research in New York.
  • Outside of Indianapolis, no one gives a ... about the IRL spec series. At this point, they should count themselves lucky that ANYONE shows up or watches their events at all. As attendance and ratings continue their decline, I envision more and more street festivals on their continued road to oblivion. Thus, invisibility on the Vs channel suites them perfectly.
  • I tooned all three of mine tv's to Versus so that the ratings wood be higher! I think all Indy Car fans shood due the same.
  • IRL/Tony failure?…
    What about CART/Champ Car?

    What about it? Does its non-existence somehow un-suck the earl? Let me answer that for you: no, it does not.
    The 'league' is in fact, a failure, a fraud, and a farce. But obviously you are still worked up over CART, so I guess it follows that you would be dim enough to be a fan of a shoddy, lame, stupid imitation of that, run by a ... I cannot wait until one of those garabgewagons sails ... Bum.
  • I cannot wait until one of those garabgewagons sails ...
  • Anthony, I'm all for non-censorship and folks speaking their mind, but comment 29 and 30 are truly out of line. Isn't there some code of conduct here???
  • I’m all for non-censorship and folks speaking their mind, but

    So as long as you approve, it's ok. Got it. Typical whining from the most chronic bunch of whiners and complainers ever: the gomerati.

    Hypocrite.
  • Stan, you are wishing people dead. You can air your differences on the topic as much as you like, but what constructive point are you making in wishing a tragedy on 'fans' of a sport? Furthermore, why do you even CARE that other people enjoy it? It's not life & death. Maybe it's not the candy and ice cream you remember in your younger years, but things change. Get over it and find something else that interests you, otherwise do something to actually solve your perceived problems with the sport. Sadly, I think that you believe that posting your hate on boards like this helps. Yeah, keep believing that. It actually energizes some of us to support the series even more.

    You have a lot to say on these boards, and I've been reading your spew for the better part of what seems to have been a year or so (or however long Anthony has been writing). I've yet to see you really say anything positive, or even in the least provide your 'ideal' series ideas. Father psychology would frown on me even responding to your posts, but you league haters are antiques.

    Seriously, find another interest and get a life. Better yet, if your ideas (oh wait you don't have any, or at least I've never seen them written) are so far superior to the current setup, get some corporate backing and start your own series. Go ahead, give it a try. Or are you too afraid to fail......again.

    Oh, and to So as long as you approve, it’s ok....all I can do is chuckle. That is such a juvenile response. You are SOOOO anti-establishment. Peace man, peace. Fight the power. Anarchy rulez.
  • I couldn't agree more with JoBu.
  • Stan
    Does its non-existence somehow un-suck the earl?

    No, it doesn't, but the IRL survived. I was a big fan of CART/Champ Car/IndyCar and IRL too beacause I love american open-wheel racing (I am not american so I don't care too much this split thing I just glad we have a unified sport) and I want that Indycar-style racing will be a success. So I really dont't get it your madness and insanity, if you doesn't like IndyCar in this form, get away this sport and find something else. Why bashing people who like it? This is ridiculous.

    You are so narrow-minded I think you have to refresh your memory and remember the whole AAA/USAC/CART history correctly.
  • Anthony,

    I agree with JoBu. These hate mongers have gone over the edge. Wishing death upon people.....When do we think enough is enough???
  • When do we think enough is enough???

    Who is we? I know you and another member of the IRLQaeda have nominated yourselves moderators and again no one cares what YOU think. You and and the other lemmings try to ban anyone who doesn't fall in line with IMS* and your dim witted hero Lord Sagamore. And the constant crying to Anthony would be laughable if it wasn't so childish and pathetic. You should grow some skin and man up, but I'm sure it's much too late for that.
  • Brett,

    I have no problem with people who disagree with me, and enjoy a spirited debate. My issue is with people who do not seem to realize you can have an intelligent discussion without insults and foul language or in this case wishing for accidents. Sorry, but those have nothing to do with intelligent conversation. If you want to be like that, there is plenty of room on the Star forums. I would like to see this site get back to discussions where people do not feel obligated to slam others.

    It is ironic that you consider people who want to see intelligent conversation returned here as childish and pathetic, but those who think cussing is somehow a sign of intelligence and maturity. Oh what a crazy world we live in.
  • Brett,

    I don't consider myself a moderator. I do however know the difference between right and wrong, between petty and larceny, between foul and obscene. Yes, your opinion and your passion are well stated, no matter how misdirected I may think. Obscene posts that suggest it to be laughable for people to die at a spectator event reduce you to less than troll status. Assume your position in the worm hole.
  • If you want to be like that, there is plenty of room on the Star forums.

    The Star's Speednet forums were at one time the best racing forum on the net. But they were ruined by irl* fans to went as far as contacting a forum members employer to tell them that he worked for an irl* sponsor but was a CART fan. That is only one example of the lunacy of some irl* fans.
  • Obscene posts that suggest it to be laughable for people to die at a spectator event reduce you to less than troll status.

    If you will notice I did not want innocent fans to be maimed by a poorly deisgned irl* spec sled.
  • If you will notice I did not want innocent fans to be maimed by a poorly deisgned irl* spec sled.

    Correct. That was me. They can't even focus their anger well. Nice to see the whiners got their precious censorship. :lol:

    And as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to the earl, there are no 'innocent' fans (ok, maybe if they are younger than 12 and being dragged by obese gomer parents to one of these debacles).

    If someone is stupid enough to participate in or attend an earl farce, there is no reason to have any sympathy for them when something goes awry.
  • Anthony, thanks. Everyone have a great weekend. MotoGP this weekend. Qutar race. Enjoy.
  • Brett,

    I am not sure how someone is able to contact a posters employer unless said poster gave out too much info. Is that why you have such deep rooted hatred towards the IRL, because someone supposedly did something really stupid?

    Hey if it happened, I think it was wrong, but somehow that does not excuse people from either side to attack people who do not agree with it. Not really sure if you were somehow trying to excuse the conduct on here because of something that may have happened on another board along time ago.
  • If you would like to discuss racing without the normal it's all CART/CCWS''s fault and the push to pass nonsense that's fine. I do find it hilarious that the irl* went to option tires. Anyway I know the person who had their employer contacted and that is just one of the reasons I don't care for the irl*. The main reason I don't care for it is for how OW has diminished and NASCAR has taken over. All of the reasons for TG's formation for forming the league were fraudulent. All of the things supposedly wrong with CART are now in the irl* minus the sponsors, manufacturer involvement, technology and ratings. If it is good for you that's fine, but don't tell me it's equal or better.
  • How exactly do you discuss the IRL without discussing cart? I mean the option at the time the IRL was formed was either keep moving the way of cart or do something different. TG saw issues with cart so he did something different. He made the setup so that drivers could race in both series. An attempt to get along. But cart did everything in its power to kill the IRL.

    So which series survived and which one died...repeatedly? The split was bad for both sides, but as history shows, cart was on a long spiral into the dustbin of history. If TG had not bailed out and tried something different, all of open wheel would be in that same dustbin. Or are you thinking that some miracle would have saved the cart from its inevitable failure?

    The push to pass and special tires is a response to those who say cart was real racing. Cart became a parody of racing. It was a series that became based on spite. They realized after a while that it would fail, but they refused to try to merge. Then when they failed, others spent more money to prop up a failed enterprise. Then when that failed they tried again. Any major series that is controlled by team owners seems to eventually fail. Look at all the major race series. NHRA, F1, NASCAR, IRL etc.... any of them run by teams, or are they run by one individual who controls it? So what happened to the last major series that was controlled by the team owners? Exactly.
  • So you do not care for a racing series because an IRL fan contacted someones employer? Really? That seems pretty petty disliking an entire series because of a fan. So it makes sense to hate Ford because someone drives around in a F150 with little boy peeing on a Chevy emblem?
  • If TG had not bailed out and tried something different, all of open wheel would be in that same dustbin.

    Absolutely delusional, and complete fiction, as is the rest of your post. Reads like typical IMS/Hulmanista spin, completely devoid of reality.

    And you think that's a good enough excuse to accept flying garbagewagons as 'racing'. Supertragicomic. :lol:

    Where exactly did you learn all of your made-up info? Crackforum? Jan Shaffer?
  • The option was there was no need to create the Irl*. If he wanted Americans to be in CART so bad he could have started a team with 10 drivers and saved a hell of a lot of money. But it wasn't about Americans, or ovals, or saving the month of May. It was a reaction by a spoiled kid who has always got his way and felt slighted by CART because they didn't bow down and kiss his ring when he came into the CART meeting in Houston in '91. The formation of the irl* is, was and always will be a sham based on lies and deceit. And all of the things Anton said was wrong with CART are all in the irl* along with Penske, Ganassi and others who ruined CART because they were only concerned with themselves and not the health of OW,
  • So you do not care for a racing series because an IRL fan contacted someones employer?

    Absolutely not, that was just an example of rabid irl* fans. I don't care for the irl* because in my opinion, which is shared by millions who have tuned out the irl*, the series is a low tech, spec series manged by a person of questionable character with a weak resume. The only thing TG has ever done is win the DNA lottery. I am saddened that the crown jewel of racing now get lower ratings than 20 NASCAR races, that pole day is a ghost town, that qualifying is a sham, that technology and innovation are dead, and there is hardly any bumping. With CART gone there really is no excuses for the split damaging the sport.
  • Stan,

    If it is so fictional, then why did cart with all the cars and stars and such a great business plan as you seem to believe they had go under repeatedly? Simple question.
  • Brett,

    Even if he started a 10 car team, or a 20 car team, it would not have first of all corrected the major problem of cart which is that it was operated by the team owners who were in it for greed, not the good of the sport. Again, it is a model that has proved unsuccessful. Granted just a guess, but I bet if he tried to start a 10 car team, cart would have developed a rule against it. The Beauty of cart was they wanted complete control of everything including pushing Indy to a one week affair. Is Indy what it was? No, but it is much better than what cart wanted it to be, and it is still the greatest race in the world. Is the IRL where I want it? No, but it is in a much better position than cart.

    The IRL is not a reincarnation of cart. How many American drivers were in cart at the end? How many ovals? It is funny that the same people who bitched that TG should come down from his ideals and meet cart half way are now complaining because in some cases he did that, such as the road courses. And you are right, Ganassi, Penske etc... are in the IRL, but not as owners. The very thing that killed cart. I know there is no way to convince the IRL haters of this, but I appreciate you havng this civilized discussion, much better than much of what is posted here.
  • I could say the same about cart fans/IRL haters here. Of course they have no series for me to not watch which is part of the core of their anger. I am sure every sports league has rabid fans that tick people off. But it seems counterproductive to hate a series because of what some fans did or did not do.

    The split caused serious damage, and both sides are to blame. It will take time to rebuild the series. Some of the things you hate about the series is why NASCAR is so popular, why F1 has trouble gaining traction in America and why the IRL is still here and cart died several long and painful deaths. Even F1 is realizing that a series of unlimited costs is unsustainable. That a series where two to four drivers at best have a chance to win the series. Even NASCAR has that issue, and has had to alter the rules to try to make it more even. The IRL puts on the best show with the closest finishes and the best points chase. All without having to use trickery to do so.
  • Indyman - great posts

    Brett - wrongfully accused as to the crash scenario. So Stan steps up to the plate - hey, twin sons of different mothers! Whaddya know?

    Long Beach - great tradition as a former F1 and Cart site - should be a great event again.
  • I am just happy to be part of this important thread.

    :lol:
  • DaHooey - Kind of like the glue that holds the gum to the bedpost.....Yeah!
  • The IRL puts on the best show with the closest finishes and the best points chase. All without having to use trickery to do so.

    In your opinion of course. NASCAR had some great finishes last year and the F-1 title changed 3 times on the last lap. Penske, Ganassi and AGR have won approximtely 56 of the last 58 oval races I believe. Ganassi killed everyone last year and the 500 was a yawner. I don't care for manufactured racing, everyone running the same chassis, engine, tires (except for roadcourses), wing angles, and having soft rev limited engine creates pack races and close finishes. Your mileage may vary.
  • I agree with you partially, Brett, but I think that the current package provides for better racing.

    I do appreciate a variety of chassis and aero packages, but I think that the racing has gotten better in its absence. Since everyone has been running the same package, we haven't had too many races with just a handful of cars on the lead lap. Some of the old CART and USAC races had some pretty boring finishes in comparison to the last 15 years. Was it really a good show when Penske blew everyone away with his push rod Mercedes, or Andy Granatelli showed up with his turbine engines? Cool, yes. Exciting, well kind of, for a while. Suspenseful? Maybe, waiting to see if they break. There will be some yawners from time to time, but I think that the racing is much better as a whole.

    I think the wings are in place primarily so that we don't have cars going 370 down the straights.

    As for the rev limits, it increases reliability. Less yellows. More green flag time.

    Penske, Ganassi, and AGR are winning because they are working the most with what they have. That's where the current innovations occur. Make a bunch of little improvements, and they add up to a big improvement.
  • Brett,

    Which series consistently has the closest finishes and the tightest points races without monkeying with the rules? If you do not care much for manufactured racing then you have not been a fan of cart or Indycar for years. Even before the split most things were tightly controlled to keep the racing close.
  • There's plenty of monkeying around with the rules. How many times has the engine spec been changed? Now we have option tires on roadcourses, where did they get that idea? Panther was caught cheating and even Vision got caught last year which lead to the firing of Larry Curry. Do you really believe Penske isn't monkeying with the rules? Those close finishes and points battles sure aren't helping the ratings, hunt for a title sponsor, or car counts. And this spec is about to be dumped for turbos.
  • Teams are always going to monkey with the technical rules. I'd say it probably happens less in the IRL than in NASCAR or F1.

    I don't, however, see the sporting rules being monkeyed with. I haven't seen a change to green/white/checker finishes, or push-to-pass/KERS. Those are both rule changes that can change the actual outcome of a race. The option tires have come back, but that wasn't anything new even when CART started it.

    Ratings and a title sponsor would both be greatly helped if there were more recognized stars. There are no AJs and Marios. The last names are still there, but the recognizable household names, for the most part, aren't there. Dixon should be a recognizable household name, but he isn't. The only one is Danica.

    Hopefully this will change with time. NASCAR has that name factor right now. AJ and Mario have been replaced with Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon.
  • Dana is right. I mean the great AJ said if you ain't cheatin you ain't trying. Cheating has been going on since the first rule in racing was adopted. Look no further than NASCAR, the amount of cheating you hear about is the tip of the iceberg to what you do not. Then there was the big F1 scandal a few weeks ago.

    Changing engine specs every couple of years or making safety changes is not the same as tricks like push to pass or creating a Playoff race to the chase as in NASCAR. Imagine if TG had decided to make a rule where no matter where you were in the points, at a certain race all that went away and everyone was reseeded? The TG haters would be beside themselves. But the IRL continues to have a close series without needing those tricks.
  • Imagine if TG had decided to make a rule where no matter where you were in the points, at a certain race all that went away and everyone was reseeded?

    That's almost as bad as having a certain race and guaranteeing the first 25 spots to regulars and only leaving 8 spots open to outsiders? But that never happened...
  • You mean like NASCAR did? Their 35-8 qualifying rules? Or F1 where, well they just limit the number of teams that can actually join their league. 25-8 was a survival rule to keep teams from cherry picking races like cart et al. were trying to do. Had cart not been encouraging teams to do that, it would probably have never been neccessary.
  • That’s almost as bad as having a certain race and guaranteeing the first 25 spots to “regulars” and only leaving 8 spots open to “outsiders? But that never happened…

    Yes, many were against this rule in 1996, but again, it was not anything unheard of. Before USAC, the AAA used to ban drivers for driving in races sanctioned by competing sanctioning bodies.

    I'm just saying, yes, that may have been unfair in 1996. That was then, this is now. One can live in the past or the present.

    The actual racing that currently goes on in the IRL is pretty top notch.

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  1. Of what value is selling alcoholic beverages to State Fair patrons when there are many families with children attending. Is this the message we want to give children attending and participating in the Fair, another venue with alooholic consumption onsite. Is this to promote beer and wine production in the state which are great for the breweries and wineries, but where does this end up 10-15 years from now, lots more drinkers for the alcoholic contents. If these drinks are so important, why not remove the alcohol content and the flavor and drink itself similar to soft drinks would be the novelty, not the alcoholic content and its affects on the drinker. There is no social or material benefit from drinking alcoholic beverages, mostly people want to get slightly or highly drunk.

  2. I did;nt know anyone in Indiana could count- WHY did they NOT SAY just HOW this would be enforced? Because it WON;T! NOW- with that said- BIG BROTHER is ALIVE in this Article-why take any comment if it won't appease YOU PEOPLE- that's NOT American- with EVERYTHING you indicated is NOT said-I can see WHY it say's o Comments- YOU are COMMIES- BIG BROTHER and most likely- voted for Obama!

  3. In Europe there are schools for hairdressing but you don't get a license afterwards but you are required to assist in turkey and Italy its 7 years in japan it's 10 years England 2 so these people who assist know how to do hair their not just anybody and if your an owner and you hire someone with no experience then ur an idiot I've known stylist from different countries with no license but they are professional clean and safe they have no license but they have experience a license doesn't mean anything look at all the bad hairdressers in the world that have fried peoples hair okay but they have a license doesn't make them a professional at their job I think they should get rid of it because stateboard robs stylist and owners and they fine you for the dumbest f***ing things oh ur license isn't displayed 100$ oh ur wearing open toe shoes fine, oh there's ONE HAIR IN UR BRUSH that's a fine it's like really? So I think they need to go or ease up on their regulations because their too strict

  4. Exciting times in Carmel.

  5. Twenty years ago when we moved to Indy I was a stay at home mom and knew not very many people.WIBC was my family and friends for the most part. It was informative, civil, and humerous with Dave the KING. Terri, Jeff, Stever, Big Joe, Matt, Pat and Crumie. I loved them all, and they seemed to love each other. I didn't mind Greg Garrison, but I was not a Rush fan. NOW I can't stand Chicks and all their giggly opinions. Tony Katz is to abrasive that early in the morning(or really any time). I will tune in on Saturday morning for the usual fun and priceless information from Pat and Crumie, mornings it will be 90.1

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