Carmel Community Players denied funding again

This time, mayor didn't take request to council

April 15, 2010
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Last May, I wrote about two Carmel community theaters and the preference Mayor Jim Brainard was showing for one over the other. For a refresher, click here.

Now, it seems that even after presenting a season of Pulitzer-Prize-winning plays, relocating to Clay Terrace (where its patrons can spend ancillary bucks before or after the shows), and bringing in Broadway star Ben Vereen for a benefit, Carmel Community Players finds itself without city funding.

In contrast, the Carmel Repertory Theater, in the midst of its first season, scored $75,000 -- more than was granted to Gregory Hancock Dance Theatre, the professional Actors Theatre of Indiana, and Carmel Fountain Square combined

According to a press release from CCP,  marketing director Brian Koning was told by the mayor that he didn't submit the request or share it with council members because he didn't feel they would support it.

Since the last post on the subject, I still haven't seen the work of either company (although, for the record, I did attend a production by Actors Theatre of Indiana in the CCP building and participated in a Stephen Sondheim birthday celebration there), so I can't speak to the quality offered by either company.

But it seems that some sort of middle ground could have been found to assist both the established company and the newcomer. Or is there a good reason for the snub?

Did you catch Carmel Repertory Theatre run of the Elvis musical "All Shook Up" or do you intend on seeing Carmel Community Players production of Beth Henley's "Crimes of the Heart" (which opens tonight)?

Your thoughts?

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  • It's On the Mayor
    I sent following email earlier today to the Carmel Mayor.

    Dear Mayor Brainard:

    I am writing to express my unhappiness that you refused to recommend any funding for the Carmel Community Players (CCP). I understand you blame this on the Council because you felt the Council would not support the request. Perhaps so, I guess we will never know, and that's the point. Had you included it in your recommendation and the Council rejected it, the blame would have fallen squarely on the Council. Now it falls on you for not even trying. You could have at least tried and there is no excuse for your not doing so.

    I do not live or vote in Carmel. I'm one of those who supports CCP and Carmel by coming from elsewhere to see CCP's excellent shows. Accordingly, I am contacting the restaurants, shops and other businesses in the Clay Terrace area that I frequent when making the trip to Carmel for a CCP production and advising them how your actions have been against their interests. I can at least try that.
    --------------------------------------

    I have since emailed Kona and Kinkaid's restaurants and the Clay Terrace Mall in general.

    I don't view this as any sort of contest between CCP and CRT. The shows I have seen at CCP have simply been amazing quality community theater productions. I saw CRT's "All Shook Up" and it was a magnificent blast as well.

    This is about Mayor Brainard not even trying to help CCP.
  • Ridiculous favoritism
    I find it appalling that this has happened, yet again. I do not live or work in Carmel, I have never been involved with or performed at either Carmel Community Players, nor Carmel Repertory Theatre, but I feel the need to speak out about the ridiculous abuse of power that's going on in Carmel.

    I don't know the details of why CRT was formed, but I know this: Since the people who now run CCP essentially kicked out the people who went off and formed CRT, the quality of CCP's shows has improved DRAMATICALLY. And while I hear that CRT still exists, I know of no one who has seen any of their shows.

    So the Carmel City Council last year chose to fund the upstart CRT, over the established CCP, because Council members "thought CRT had a better chance of success" (according to the Indy Star). This is ridiculous, and I have been so enjoying, over the past year, watcing how CCP has flourished while CRT has enjoyed the oblivion it so richly deserves.

    On a side note: I wonder if people know that the President of the Carmel City Council is a sometimes (bad) performer who is tight with the CRT folks, has been cast by them often, and that's the reason CRT was funded over CCP. So yes - for that reason, the Mayor was correct to assume that the Council was not likely to fund CCP. I'm sure he knows that Mr. Sharp holds a grudge.

    Now it's a year later. CCP has moved into a great new space (that is in a GREAT location) and tackled some wonderful theatre projects and outreach. For this group to once again be dismissed by the City -- without a fair opportunity for discussion -- well, it's bizarre and ridiculous.

    So I ask this, one year later: Does anyone in Carmel (or in central Indiana arts circles) still think that CRT has a better chance of success than CCP? The answer is no. And from what I hear, this funding from the city is probably the only thing that's keeping CRT going. So congratulations, taxpayers of Carmel. Your money is going to fund a bad theatre that is likely to go under soon anyway.

    Whatever the case, it is APPALLING that CRT received more than TWICE as much money as Actors Theatre of Indiana - an established professional group who has been producing good theatre in central Indiana for several years now.

    Your elected government in action.
  • Truth
    My thoughts. Didn't the Mayor and City Council just give $5,000 to this group to raise money? How much did they raise? Perhaps the city just did not want to throw any more money away!
  • Move to Westfield
    Maybe they should move to Westfield or Noblesville and try their hand there.
  • Not here
    Wait a minute we have a group here in Westfield and I don't think Belfry wants these cry babies in Noblesvile. I don't think Sheridan has a group
  • Your Kidding me right?
    Your telling me that the Mayor and the City Council did give CCP $5,000 and I understand the City if Indianapolis gave them another $5,000 and they ended up losing all if not most of that money. Now they are mad and stopping their feet because the city is not giving them more money? I say good riddence to them. It seems the Mayor and the City Council did what most of us would do. Cut them off
    • Wasted $5000
      Why would the Mayor give more money to a group who lost a $5000 grant for a disastrous fund raiser?
    • Good Decision Mayor
      I agree with some of the comments here. It is not good business sense to provide more funding if the previously awarded funding did not result positively. People should just be more open to actual facts as opposed to write something based on their "friends" inputs. Theater and Arts is also like running a business.
    • CCP Response
      While we welcome and appreciate the open dialogue, we would hope that people keep their comments positive and not attack any individuals or organizations personally. Several of the folks from Carmel Repertory Theatre have been friends of ours for many years. Anyone in community theater understands the hard work, dedication and sacrifices that everyone makes. So, to call out a specific organization or individual is inappropriate. After all, art is subjective. Some folks like certain shows more than others or prefer one theater over another, and thatâ??s okay. Personal attacks arenâ??t.

      We do want to set the record straight in that nobody was kicked out of Carmel Community Players. There was simply a parting of the ways and changes to the leadership.

      There were a lot of hurt feelings and animosity last year when the City of Carmel denied funding to CCP. Inappropriate things were said at that time by everyone involved, including Carmel residents and members of the theater community who have never even seen shows put on by CCP or The Rep. Yes, there are, after all, two sides (or more) to each story. For its part, CCP accepts responsibility for any role it had in fanning the flames both directly or indirectly. However, we have a strict, no tolerance policy that nobody associated with CCP post any derogatory comments. If we learn that any of the anonymous posts are from CCPâ??s Board or staff members, they will be asked to leave our organization. We would hope that other organizations would adopt that same policy. This does nothing to help the situation.

      The folks at Carmel Repertory Theater are not at fault here. And I will point out that while I disagree with the process and how Mayor Brainard handled it, Councilman Rick Sharp was very cordial and gracious in explaining the process to me at last nightâ??s special meeting of the Carmel City Council. It made sense. And had the Mayor follow the process as it was intended, the results may have been different. In addition, some of us from Carmel Community Players have attended recent performances of the Carmel Repertory Theater to show our support and we expressed our desire to Mayor Brainard to work with them. The Mayor expressed his wish for â??harmonyâ?? but, as I told him, he is directly responsible for any current disharmony.

      The issue here is with Mayor Brainard and a flawed and biased process with no transparency. We can no longer ignore the fact that we are being intentionally excluded for whatever reasons. The Carmel community needs to be aware so that they can voice their concerns or make their opinions known in future elections.

      But, on behalf of Carmel Community Players, we respectfully ask that the personal attacks on Carmel Repertory Theater stop.

      We are committed to forging stronger relations with all area arts organizations, especially our friends at Carmel Repertory Theatre.

      And to address the comments about our Evening with Ben Vereen event, no we did not lose $10,000. Part of the intent of this event, as we explained in our grant applications, was to give something back to the community, and bringing Ben Vereen to Carmel was that vehicle. The two $5,000 grants (not loans) were awarded to help offset the costs of putting on this particular event with the understanding by both the City of Carmel and the Arts Council of Indianapolis that there were no guarantees. Unfortunately, after all was said and done, the event netted a very small loss (approx $1,000). However, we consider this event successful in every other way.

      Respectfully,

      Brian Koning
      Director of Marketing and Public Relations
      Carmel Community Players
    • Wow
      I'm really shocked at the level of hostility and disrespect in some of these posts. Very sad. CCP is a great group of people who produce quality theater and I wish them the best of luck.
    • Live in Carmel?
      Why are our tax dollars being wasted and when is Sharp and the Mayor up for
      re-election? How does the Carmel government get away with such politics?
      • Go Mayor
        Let's see Carmel is growing, building and flourishing in a recession and WE PAY LESS TAXES than 99% of Indiana Cities. Can you name one other city in Indiana than can boost of the same? In the USA? In the World? Yes our Mayor and City Council are the best (in the world). Prove otherwise.
      • Go Mayor
        Let's see Carmel is growing, building and flourishing in a recession and WE PAY LESS TAXES than 99% of Indiana Cities. Can you name one other city in Indiana than can boost of the same? In the USA? In the World? Yes our Mayor and City Council are the best (in the world). Prove otherwise.
      • Lou
        Looks like Lou is a very lazy journalist. He makes inflamatory comments and doesn't bother to do the work to find the answers
      • Lost Money?
        I don't understand the double standard in regards to the money CCP received last year and describing it as "lost."

        CRT received seven times what CCP received and you aren't calling that "lost." Of course, CRT's money was not "lost" either. CRT made good use of the City's generosity to enrich the Carmel Community with theater arts.

        CCP likewise used its, far lesser, City funds to enrich the Carmel and Indianapolis area with theater arts. That enrichment included not only some wonderful shows produced by CCP, but also CCP bringing a national theater legend whose performance raised Carmel's prestige in theater arts and brought business to the city. Carmel and Indianapolis won, even if CCP did not.
      • Keith You are Correct
        Keith you are correct when you say you do not understand. Perhaps if you took time to talk instead of firing off inflammatory emails you would know that the Mayor did the right thing. I am not going to try to explain it to you because you would reject what I know to be true. You need to find out for yourself. But please quit fanning flames that you do not understand.
      • Keith You are Correct
        Keith you are correct when you say you do not understand. Perhaps if you took time to talk instead of firing off inflammatory emails you would know that the Mayor did the right thing. I am not going to try to explain it to you because you would reject what I know to be true. You need to find out for yourself. But please quit fanning flames that you do not understand.
      • C'mon Golab
        Golab, you are right, too. YOU need to FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF before you decide if the mayor did the right thing. What facts to you have to make that claim? Have you seen financials or their request? No.

        I think what people are missing here is that a 17-year-old arts organization requested funding by properly following an undocumented process - at least in theory. The Mayor, however, did not present their request based on an "assumption" that it wouldn't be approved by the City Council. Then, it would have been up to the City Council at that point, thus saving the Mayor some fair and honest public criticism. That was not fair to the organization. I think that's what they are, and rightfully should be, upset about.

        A grant is money awarded (not a loan as Mr. Koning pointed out) without any stipulations for repayment. Can you really say that any grant to a NFP is not "lost". It's used to cover the cost of programs and other expenses that aren't covered by fundraising. Grants rarely generate a financial return. What they do, however, is help organizations like these add to the quality of life in their community.

        Give both of these organizations a break, people. Aren't there bigger fish to fry in Carmel?

      • Mr. Sharp
        Doesn't all of this has something to do with the fact that City Council member Mr. Sharp used to be with the theater organization that was denied the $$$ and is now with the organization that now gets the $$$ and gets a free theater in the PAC?
        • Losing Money?
          The Carmel Symphony Orchestra loses a lot more money every year. Without the taxpayer handouts they wouldn't exist.
        • HarveyF
          Is very sadly misinformed. Which is why this is such a controversy. People open their mouths with little to no knowledge of the facts. And before you ask - Yes I do know and YES Mayor Branaird was exactly correct in what he did.
        • Making Money in Carmel
          World renown artist Michael Fienstein is building a home here in Carmel. Once again a person open his/her mouth a shows ignorance - I hope you don't live in Carmel
        • Making Money in Carmel
          World renown artist Michael Fienstein is building a home here in Carmel. Once again a person open his/her mouth a shows ignorance - I hope you don't live in Carmel
        • Councilman Sharp
          Councilman Sharp and his daughter have performed with both organizations, giving of their time and talents. Both organizations are open to all who wish to participate. Like most of us, he has a job that just happens to be the head of the city council. Mr. Sharp, not having had a chance to even consider CCP's application, has nothing to do with this and should not be brought into this particular issue. I would have expected him to give CCP fair consideration had he had a vote.

          Also, no organization will get to use the RPAC for "free". All will have to pay rental and other associated fees. I confirmed that in a recent meeting with Steven Libman.

          The Rep submitted their request for funding, had it fairly considered by Mayor Brainard and approved by the City Council.

          The Rep is not at fault here and we cannot begin to mend any fences in the arts community with people pointing fingers at other organizations. The fault lies in the process by which our (CCP's) request was or was not considered.
        • whiners
          First, CCp split and CRP is really the Carmel organization made up of many Carmel residents. CCP was taken over a a few malcontents from outside Carmel--even the marketing director Brian Koning doesn't live in Carmel.

          Brainard should be praised for starting the percent for arts--one of the first communities in Indiana to do so. As a result, however, since Carmel has money for the arts and Indy doesn't several Indy groups have tried to get Carmel to recognize them. Brainard did provide five thousand to CCP for the Ben Vereen performance this year, a fact they conveniently forgot to mention in their votrolic "news release." part of the problem, as I understand it, that C CP poorly marketed that show and has yet to even report the results of how they spent the city's five grand to the city. However, they did find the time to apply for more money. The CCP folks have proved themselves as whiney, unappreciative morons who some feel entitled to Carmel taxpayer money. The mayor said NO; big deal.
          • Feinstein
            So if FeinStein sold out 3 concerts per year at over 100.00 per ticket he would just pay for HIS salary...nothing else. Also there is 200,000 for the director as well. I thought there were some unfinished roundabouts that still need funding?
            • Sold Out
              Feinstein's tickets would have to be over $100.00 to cover the costs of the performance, rent etc.

              So, a community theater group is going to pay rent with money that is given to them by the taxpayers of Carmel. Couldn't that be considered "free rent?"

              I'm just not sold on the idea that the government is so powerful when it comes to the funding of the arts. There should be a committee that oversees the grants and makes recommendations to the City Council. The Council writes the checks and then gets out of the way. The way things are now politicians rather than the arts community have too much say in what is presented and what direction all of this is headed. But then again, the greater Indianapolis arts community is yet to embrace all of this, and at this point one would have to believe that they will not.

              BTW - So which company is Mr. Sharp _now_ a member of?
            • Feinstein and spending
              It does not make sense to spend that kind of money on someone who gives 150 concerts worldwide, mostly lives in LA, New York and has a show (well or did but 'till it bombed after 20 performances!) on broadway.
            • Understanding
              George, if you are not going to explain to me that which you say would improve my understanding then you should not criticize my supposed lack of understanding. Let's talk about the issue rather than each other.
            • Wow
              I am so shocked at the comments that I have just read. All CCP was asking was to be considered. They were not name calling and throwing other people under the bus, just asking to be treated fairly. I don't think anyone who has posted would want to not even be considered for something that they cared about, when all of their peers were. Think about it. It has nothing to do with where you live or if you like theater or not. it is about doing the right thing.
            • Was it the mayor's call?
              Was it really the mayor's call to decide which appplications were presented to the Council? It seems to me that the Council should have been given all the the requests - and that the Council then could decide. He shouldn't have "veto" power before a request is even considered. That's so disappointing.
            • Portia
              Portia,

              Your post was about as inaccurate as it was inarticulate. Characterizing members of Carmel Community Players as "whiney, unappreciative morons" was a libelous attack. But it fits right in with the rest of the ignorance contained in your prose.

              To refute your initial point, the schism within CCP happened when the long-time management childishly walked out of a board meeting in a fit of pique simply because the board rightly called for an open vote to determine the next CCP president instead of just automatically re-anointing the original president as it had been done for years. In spite of repeated conciliatory overtures, the ex-CCP management refused to return to the fold unless they were restored to their prior positions. Once it was clear that was not going to happen, they then started CRP. The only party whose behavior could possibly be characterized as 'whiney and moronic' in this whole melodrama is the former CCP/current CRT management.

              Throughout its history, CCP has continually been the fortunate recipient of contributions from many gifted and talented volunteers both from Carmel and throughout the Central Indiana region, and without the benefit of any public funding for all but 4 years of its existence. Carmel should consider itself fortunate to be the home of a community theater organization with such a prestigious reputation that it draws patrons from a 75 mile radius to see its productions.

              Common sense and logic should also underscore the fact that CCP's presence reaps cultural and economic benefits for the city of Carmel. Such positive civic contributions merit respect and recognition from the City Administration in all municipal matters, including funding requests. But rather than objectively accord CCP its justly earned consideration in his funding allocation recommendation to the Carmel City Council, Mayor Brainerd instead acted on his own bias and employed sneaky political subterfuges to exclude CCP and secure funding for his friends. . . friends who just happen to be the current management of CRT. In contrast to CCP, CRT is an insular organization which includes the Carmel City Council President among its members, repeatedly casts from the same small group of actors for each production, and whose productions themselves have generally not been well received in its first season.

              In spite of the blatant partisanship and favoritism displayed by the Carmel City Government the past 2 years though, CCP has not missed a step and continues to successfully fund and produce highly acclaimed and widely viewed shows. Yes, it could have used the $40,000 it requested in its submitted proposal to Mayor Brainerd. But CCP can still count on loyal support and patronage from throughout the Indianapolis arts community. With a dedicated staff, CCP will endure and overcome this recent snub and
              continue to enhance the profile of Carmel with continued quality theater.
              • BorisK
                If CCP really have all the support and patronage of the Indianapolis Community then they should move to Indianapolis. A lot of the things you wrote here continue to be false information.......
              • false information.......
                Oh really? Please tell me then, exactly what information in my post was false? If you're going to make such a blatant assertion then you had better make sure you have the facts to support it. The truth is you have none because every event described in my narrative was 100% factually accurate, interspersed with personal commentary. I'll admit I didn't pull any punches when I profiled the unethical actions of a few parties involved, but all those who know the truth of the matter would confirm their validity unanimously. If you can't even manage to manufacture a single example to refute my testimony, then how do you expect to be taken credibly? The simple truth is that your response was merely another sad example of uninformed mud-slinging.
              • Call it as it is
                Sharpe and Brainard are just typical, unethical politicians. I can't wait for re-election.
              • Community theatre involvement
                Since this point was brought up I think it should be pointed out that NO theatre in this area (including the taxpayer supported CRT) derives it's support and participants strictly from the community in which it is located.
              • Tradition?
                Just have to point something out. The Rep/CRT/whatever it is this week states the following about it's upcoming annual meeting: "The official meeting begins at 7:00 pm and traditionally includes the election of new board members." Two thoughts on this. First of all, this group has only been in existence for one year. Does that constitute a tradition? You left. You gave up all rights to CCP traditions. You cannot claim another organization's past. You thought it was your organization, but it belonged then and belongs now to the community. Secondly, it is refreshing that the organization is going to hold elections at an annual meeting - their leadership never wanted to hold elections during their tenure at the other organization.
              • Why did CCP trash costumes?
                Could someone tell me why CCP trashed dozens of costumes presumably paid for by tax dollars instead of giving them to others in the arts community who could use them? Why should the city give more money to such bad stewards?
              • Buckit
                Buckit, I was one of the people that helped in the costume department. I don't know where you get your information but we took them to the Goodwill as a donation. If you have anymore misinformation I would be glad to talk to you.
              • Buckit
                And just to be clear the items that were trashed had stains and mold. As good stewards we decided that a double warehouse wasn't needed so we moved to a single to save money. Thanks for your interest.k5c85
              • We were Right
                So "Vicky" we were correct to say costumes were trashed/given away to Goodwill and not local and school theatre programs. The 10 foot x 10 foot x 30 dumpster (that was completely full) you used to trash other stage equiptment/materials and items, I suppose was moldy and stained as well and is the reason you didn't offer to area theaters and schools? Or was it simple PRIDE. Too proud to let everybody know the truth. To proud to save face so you wasted several thousands of dollars of money given to you by the community.
              • Internet protocol
                Don't feed the troll. Anything you say will be twisted and distorted.
                • Internet Protocol
                  You are correct, they seem to distort everything they have done to themselves and made it look like someone else's fault. They caused all of the acrimony and sat back and let everybody blame other people who had NOTHING to do with their demise, Shame on them!!!!
                • Portia
                  Well Portia, who's whiney now.
                • Performing Arts Center
                  Hifalutin Brainard thought all those wealthy cultured Carmelites would come up with the fifty million dollars for the Performing Arts Center. Have they received even 15 million?

                  If they can't even support the Carmel Symphony, which needed taxpayer handouts and Feinstein's show bombed on Broadway after twenty concerts, I wonder what kind of entertainment will be supported. Several other high quality organizations also failed to receive support from the Carmel community.

                  I suppose the elaborate hall will be supported by such groups as Blue Men, Stomp, Jay-Z, Country singers, rap artists,and others of that ilk. I wonder how many have ever attended the symphony or would know who Mendelssohn and Rimsky-Korsakov were???
                • Buckit
                  Good Stewards - don't make me laugh. CRT's leader spent 4000$ on pink wigs and another 3000$ on a golf cart they used only once as a lame river boat. Is that being good stewards of the cities tax dollars. I think not, I hate to see what they'll throw away this year. Shame on CRT. They don't have the respect of the theater community.
                • Joe get your facts correct
                  Try 400$ on wigs and 900$ on a golf cart. The "Lame" river boat won an award. The Golf cart was used in two shows and two parades and was sold back 3 years later for 600$ A great use of $$$. You are obviously from CCP and if you could only tell the truth. But you can't. You know if people out there knew the truth you would lose what little credibility you have. Someday the truth will come out and the supporters of CCP will be in shame! The lies in your post are telling.
                • Joe Foxworth
                  Wow Joe! Nice spin on what is being thrown away. From what I have heard it was CCP who threw away a lot of items from their warehouse instead of donating them to other community theaters and schools.
                • The Truth is Out There
                  "To refute your initial point, the schism within CCP happened when the long-time management childishly (LIE) walked out of a board meeting in a fit of pique (LIE) simply because the board rightly called for an open vote to determine the next CCP president (LIE) instead of just automatically re-anointing the original president (LIE) as it had been done for years (LIE). In spite of repeated conciliatory overtures(LIE), the ex-CCP management refused to return to the fold unless they were restored to their prior positions(TRUE). Once it was clear that was not going to happen, they then started CRP (LIE). The only party whose behavior could possibly be characterized as 'whiney and moronic' in this whole melodrama is the former CCP/current CRT management.(LIE)

                  Mayor Brainerd instead acted on his own bias (LIE) and employed sneaky political subterfuges to exclude CCP (LIE) and secure funding for his friends (LIE) . . . friends who just happen to be the current management of CRT(They are friends with anybody/everybody who is reasonable) . In contrast to CCP, CRT is an insular organization (LIE) which includes the Carmel City Council President among its members (As well as most of the Carmel Theatre Community), repeatedly casts from the same small group of actors for each production(LIE) , and whose productions themselves have generally not been well received in its first season (FAT LIE)."
                  -------
                  In spite of the blatant partisanship and favoritism displayed by the Carmel City Government (LIE) the past 2 years though, CCP has not missed a step (LIE).



                  The truth â?? Is so ridiculous that it strains credibility, If I were to tell you what started the schism and what forced CCP out of consideration of any grant, you would say I was crazy. You would say that CCP just could not have acted so childishly. (They did) It would be impossible for grown people to act and fall under the influence of [pick your adjective].

                  Believe me or not, but find out for yourself, EVERY misstep/mistake made has been made by CCP. They have used people and the lies pointed out above to foster there â??Poor CCPâ?? line. You need to quit listening to these CCPers and find out the truth for yourselves. As I said, you wonâ??t believe me because it is so stupid, so childish, so funny - but it is true.

                  But you do not have to worry EVERY person instrumental in forming CCP has joined the other group â?? and History belongs to those that made it.
                • CRT
                  Again "whose whinney now" let it go, move on. We are tired of the bashing. Let people go see both theatre's and they can judge the quality for themselves.
                • WHO?
                  It just seems funny, CCP's people can put out LIE after LIE after LIE and everybody is POOR CCP. When someone tells the truth that CCP caused EVERY bad thing that happened to them themselves and LOU HARRY is just too lazy to find out the truth, the comment is LETS MOVE ALONG. Sorry but it is time someone told people the truth. The truth CCP just does not want you to know.
                • Give it a Rest
                  Let sleeping dogs lie and move on. CCP will survive.
                • Give it a Rest
                  Jim, I do not think we should give it a rest and let CCP get away with all the LIES LIES LIES LIES. Why give a rest? Afraid that if the truth will come out that all of you supported this supposed "Leaders" of CCP will come out looking fooling in the long run because you believed the "one" person who kept on spreading the lies around?
                • No, really -- let it go

                  I actually left Indy a couple of years ago, but was active in the theater scene when I lived there (although never in Carmel productions). So I'll periodically check in on the news to see what's going on in my old 'hood and such. And I've got to say -- as an independent observer...all of these angry, attacking posts? Coming across as incredibly immature and really doing nothing to help the arguments. Threatening people with looking foolish when the "truth" comes out? Followed by more "LIES" accusations? Come on. If there's a "truth" that needs to come out, then by all means, let's hear it. But honestly....why does it really matter? Who cares at this point how the groups formed, or who got mad at who, or who walked out on what? This article is about one group completely being denied any funding in favor of another. And that certain group receiving funding well in excess of other (and some more established) groups in the area. Even without knowing anything at all about the process...on the surface it just doesn't smell right.

                  But even with all of that, the official CCP response posted above (on the same day that the article was published) acknowledged past issues, expressed support of CRT, and asked the attacks to stop. Honestly, it's that kind of response that stands out above all of these other threats and childish name calling. At least it does for me.

                  Best of luck to both groups, and I really hope that all of this silly bickering can stop. It's not productive, and there are more important things to focus on now.



                • MJM
                  Amen to that MJM......Hopefully these two groups moves forward to whatever path each of them want to take.
                • Real World
                  MJM - If only what you say could be true. However when one side of this conflict consistently attacks the other with "Untruths", there comes a time when you run out of cheeks.

                  I have no problem with them (CCP) doing whatever they want, go where ever they want. But The Rep, anybody associated with the The Rep, the Carmel Mayor and The Carmel City Council had NOTHING to do with CCP's downfall. CCP is the reason (and the only reason) CCP is in the position they are. So their pointing fingers at the most supportive group of elected officals of the Arts in Indiana perhaps the US; is ugly, unfortunate and untrue. They are simply trying to ruin the Arts in Carmel or they wouldn't be telling the lies they do. They have come out and publicly said "The Rep is not at fault here" yet they let loose the hounds of (Heck) and spread the lies. BorisK's post full of lies proves my point. It could of been written only by a CCP board Member or someone close. Your own poining finger at The Rep and not even mentioning CCP'c posts also tells me volumes.

                  If they want to tell the truth then the calls for the truth will stop. But as long as their Board/staff members are out there printing blantant falsehoods -My cheeks are red and bleeding from turning them and I am tired of it.

                  I agree with you the truth needs to come out. But I hope people are ashamed when they do hear it as to some of the falsehoods they printed. I doubt it because they are working for distruction not Art!
                • JMJ
                  Nobody has to worry about CCP. CCP is avive and well and in fact thriving. They just call themselves "The Rep" now
                • JMJ
                  You are very correct JMJ. The spirit of the original CCP, its founding fathers, followers, supporters and an influx of great new supporters have migrated to "The Rep".
                • Mee Too
                  I am in the Rep's current production. This is my first show with them and I have found them to be thus far a very warm and inviting group. They have made me feel as "part of the family" from the very begining. And the show is already looking great!
                • Again -- get over it...

                  Portia -- but, again....why do you care? At this point, just move on. You're SO focused on what this person is saying and what that person is saying....who cares? Honestly -- people are going to believe what they want to believe, no matter how many attacks and "LIES!" statements you post. Plus (assuming you're from CRT) you've now got $75K to make a great season. So accept it and make a great season with it. And allow CCP to do the same.

                  It's amazing to me how much energy is wasted on negativity....and for what? Let. It. Go. It's in the past and doesn't matter. Move on.


                • MJM
                  Sounds like the CCP board at it again. As long as everything is POOR CCP THIS PERSON AND THAT PERSON DID YOU WRONG let it go on as long as possible. But once someone points out the truth it LET'S MOVE ALONG. I care because friends of mine have been hurt by these hateful people.

                  I will stop when everybody realizes what CCP morphed into is the reason that they did not get a grant and not everybody else fault. The Mayor followed the letter of the law and exactly as the process was suppose to. He made the best possible decision. You and the rest of the morphed CCP board just need to realize it and you are the ones that need to move on. If you had an ounce of business sense you would be moving to merge with The Rep not making them enemies. But once again your PRIDE will lead you to utterly fail than to ask for help.
                • JMJ
                  Why don't they merge?
                • MJM
                  The Morphed CCP would rather fail and lose everything they have worked so hard to do than admit they were wrong. They would rather commit CCP to the grave than to go to The Rep for help.

                  Its sad but its true!
                • JMJ
                  That is sad! :(
                • MJM
                  It is sad and utterly pointless. And the saddest part about it is that they will try to take down as much as they possibly can in the process. It proves they do care about the Arts in Carmel but just themselves.
                • Please tell me your wrong!
                  Please I am not arguing but I do hope your wrong!
                • MJM
                  So do I; David, So do I!
                • I seem to have started something...

                  I don't get why everyone seems to be posting under "MJM" now, as I have only posted twice (well, now three) times. But again, you all are only proving my initial point. Stop the madness. All of you. You're acting like children. I assure you all that I have NO dog in this fight (I don't even live there, for god's sake). Stop the name calling, stop posting under everyone else's name, it only makes you look even more ridiculous. If you can't let go of all of this negativity I really don't see any way that either group can succeed. Which is sad. Let it go, it's in the past....and go produce your seasons! Being successful is the best revenge, after all.

                  I'm out! Unlike many of you, I have better things to do than bicker on message boards. I'm sure there will continue to be a multitude of future "MJM" posts....just note that they will NOT be from me. :-) Peace!



                • MJJ
                  MJM - With ' no dog in the fight ' You sure stood up for CCP and never once mentioned the hateful posts by them.

                  long-time management childishly
                  Hifalutin Brainard
                  tax dollars being wasted
                  sometimes (bad) performer

                  Just to mentioned a very few. Proves that your sour grapes are just that. Why did you not mention their hateful posts? Is because they are yours?
                • Yikes...

                  How does anyone know who's standing up for who around here? Names all over the place, accusations flying around....crazy! Then someone comes in, encouraging everyone to just put all of the crap behind them and put the energy into producing good shows (and, looking back at the posts...it's telling *both* groups to do so) -- and then *that* person is attacked.

                  Maybe this is all one person...arguing with himself / herself?

                • Bumfuzzled
                  There are several things I want to point out. I am not a member of CCP. That's my real name up there. Where it says "name" on "post a comment to this blog", my suggestion is to man-up and put your name up there. Don't use my name. You don't have my permission. If you're going to stand for something , stand behind it and don't hide behind a pseudonym. A little proofreading wouldn't hurt either. Also it is bad manners to insult somebody on their own blog.
                  Leaving aside all of the "he said, she said " accusations, I am a little bumfuzzled about the seeming importance of whether this person or that person is from Carmel. I would venture to guess that there are a great many people living in Carmel that are relatively new residents who could care less about old Carmel. Their voice is just as valid as anyone else's.
                  No organization can grow if the very same people are in charge year after year after year. Stepping aside to let in new blood and new ideas is a good thing. Theatre is a collaborative art. When it becomes all about one person's vision year after year, stagnation tends to set in.
                  This is especially true in community theatre in Indianapolis(and we are all one big community as evidenced by the success of the Encore Association). Many people become involved with different organizations no matter where they live. Only by sharing and respecting the ideas of others can someone grow as as a thespian.

                  This little dispute may become moot after next year anyhow when the Booth Tarkington Civic Theater moves north and becomes the Big Dog in Carmel(especially for musicals).

                • You are right
                  Yes, Jim and Nuts you are absolutely correct it would be nice to just live in peace.

                  However I still see as funny that CCP goes on and on and on about how everybody else is to blame for their poor planning, bad business models, poor decisions, attacking people who had nothing to do with the above, sending emails that virtually try to blackmail elected officials with bad publicity if they did not bend to their wishes. Then hiding behind their attack dogs they wipped into a frenzy. And once again it's 'poor CCP'.

                  When finally someone stands up and tells the truth - it is all about 'Let's put this behind us' - Don't demand the truth just forget all the hateful things CCP's attack dogs said (in exactly the way CCP's board threatened to do).

                  The word is â??convenientâ?? You want this to stop then quit trying to defend the guilty.


                • Quiz time
                  "No organization can grow if the very same people are in charge year after year after year. Stepping aside to let in new blood and new ideas is a good thing. Theatre is a collaborative art. When it becomes all about one person's vision year after year, stagnation tends to set in."

                  Say Jim, here is a quiz for you: Can you name the 7 presidents CCP has had in 14 years (each serving multiple year terms)? Next, how many presidents has very successful Footlites had in the same time period? Has any area community theater had more changes in the top leadership over the same time period?

                  Yes, you are a CCP Attack Dog either knowingly or unknowinly spreading the falsehoods the ' morphed ' CCP has been spreading over the past year and a half.

                  If you want to have a voice in this debate - please, please, please let it be an informed - true one.
                • You are right
                  M&M

                  I don't think one person in the morphed CCP can name all the old presidents or even all the founders!

                  It is correct that the true CCP is now called The Rep. I really do not know why they are so stubburn and just don't join forces. I know many at the Rep who are heartbroken at what Morphed CCP is doing!
                • You are Right
                  From what I heard several attempts have been made by The Rep to reconcile with the "morphed CCP". However, several malcontents still in the "morphed CCP" team blocked the attempts several times.
                • Beer summit?
                  I'm seriously thinking that it might be time for me to take Obama's lead and get the two groups' leaders together for a beer summit.
                  --Lou
                • We are ready
                  My last words to CCP's leadership 2 weeks ago was: "If you want my help - just call me". My phone has been silent.

                  Lou, If you are serious - email me.
                • ?
                  Lou, perhaps you are having trouble with my e-mail. I sent you my phone number.

                  If you're serious.
                • Get Real
                  Larry - do you think he really was serious? Do you really think the CCP-Morphed will meet? They have a great interest in in keeping the truth locked up. They do not want people to realize they stood by knowing you and The Rep were being crucified on these blogs and know for a FACT that you, The Rep, The Carmel Mayor and The Carmel City Council had nothing to do with them getting zip. They themselves caused it. Just as they caused people like "Jim Lucus" or whoever he really is to carry CCP's dirty water. I am sure he was 'bumfuzzled' to learn CCP has had 7 presidents not one as they would lead you to believe and if my information is correct (it is) the very successful Footlites had, at one time, the same President for 20 years. Did not seem to hurt them at all.

                  No, all you are going to hear from these people is the sound of crickets...

                  But don't dispair and keep up the good fight. I am really looking forward to your upcoming season - it really looks like a great one.

                  I know you and your people have been very hurt by CCP-Morphed but keep your chin up. You did the right thing then and your willingness to meet with CCP-Morphed to help them should be an eye-opener to all.

                  I don't understand it but I admire it!
                • Hummmmmm
                  Seems like a real journalist would have the Rep's phone numbers on speed dial. If people want to pretend to be journalist than a measure of unbiased approach is assumed. Or do we just have another water carrier here?
                • It is Funny
                  It is funny to see when Lou Harry suggested the idea of a beer summit and the leader of The Rep (REAL CCP) responded how the thread came to halt. Does this mean that the morphed-CCP leadership is not willing to have the truth come out?
                • The Truth
                  The comments here from Portia are beyond nonsensical. Out of one side of this person's mouth we are told: "If I were to tell you what started the schism and what forced CCP out of consideration of any grant, you would say I was crazy." That appears to be the rationale for not disclosing what Portia claims to know as the real reason.

                  The Portia declares "I agree with you the truth needs to come out."

                  So having refused to let Portia's understanding of "the truth" come out, Portia declares it needs to come out.

                  Well then, just spill it for Pete's sake. This game of "I know a secret" but not speaking frankly is beyond childish and absurd. If you feel you have facts to contribute, then throw them on the table and let the chips fall where they may.
                • To Tell The Truth
                  I can't. You need to understand how these blogs work. I tell you what caused it and then I get bombarded by "the Hounds of Heck" trying to re-spin what they spun before. It is much better that you go out and talk to both sides of this issue yourself. Don't believe everything you hear especially me and the rest of these bloggers. Didn�t you find it interesting that CCP has had 7 presidents not the one they led you to believe? I�m a skeptical lady, when I heard that I said to myself, If these people lied (or allowed other to lie for them) about that what else have they mislead us about? My research led to the truth. I was placed under an oath not to repeat it but I can encourage others to find out for them selves.

                  But I can tell you this much. Morphed-CCP is the reason Morphed-CCP did not get a grant. Any reasonable person knowing all the facts would have done the same thing. Going off half cocked when (I am guessing) you have not spoken to all sides of the issue to find out the real truth has compounded the hurt and destruction which was Morphed-CCP�s stated intent all along.

                  The truth is out there but YOU have to go find it.
                • From an Outsider
                  I was reading all the things written in this thread and how people loyal to both groups are defending their side. I say why not let Lou Harry BE TRUE to his word and set-up this Beer Summit between the leaders of the two groups. I saw two responses from Larry Creviston with no response from Lou Harry or CCP.
                  The absence of a follow through from Lou Harry somehow indicates that Lou just wants this thread to continue to increase his viewership. The absence of a response from CCP to clear up all the alleged lies appears, from an outsider, that their leadership does not have the courage to step up and clear all the issues.
                  So from an outsider's point of view:
                  Mr. Lou Harry what is your next step?
                  CCP Leadership what is your next step?
                • Beer Summit
                  Outside: I only raised the question a few days ago.

                  I'd be happy to host a meeting with one or two people from each of the companies. The Mayor, of course, is also most welcome.

                  CCP and CRT, please contact me via e-mail with your interest and availabilities.

                  --Lou
                • Beer Summit
                  Outside: I only raised the question a few days ago.

                  I'd be happy to host a meeting with one or two people from each of the companies. The Mayor, of course, is also most welcome.

                  CCP and CRT, please contact me via e-mail with your interest and availabilities.

                  --Lou
                • OK
                  I thought I did?
                • Put up or shut up.
                  Portia, I'm honestly curious. How do you think that reasonable people are going to respond to this "the truth needs to come out" followed by "I've got a secret I don't have the guts to tell you about" stuff?

                  I mean really. If you've got something to say, then say it. Otherwise you just come across as flat out juvenile and silly.
                • Put up or hut up
                  KeithDP suggest that you leave this up to Lou Harry, The Rep and CCP. Lou Harry has suggested a beer summit, Larry Creviston has replied to Lou Harry, Have not heard from CCP.....
                • Script
                  Curtian up
                  Stage is black
                  A Door opens and a blinding light spills out
                  Three people walk through into the dark
                  Actor 1: I'm here and I've brought the "Voice of Reason" and "Common Sense" with me.
                  Actor 2: Yes we want to talk
                  Actor 3: Please!

                  Bring up the sound of crickets

                  The three actors hang there heads and leave.

                  curtian
                • Wisdom
                  Wisdom tells us to walk away when a Bully is present.
                • Keith
                  Look Keith, you are already calling me "juvenile and silly" and I haven't told you the truth. No, I would prefer to remain a lady and let you learn the truth for yourself. Besides once you do take the time to talk to both sides you are going to learn that the truth will embarrass a lot of people. It is not something a real lady would write on a blog. You, at times seem a reasonable person, you should understand my reasoning. However, my reluctance to embarrass a lot of people should not deter you, go ahead and find the truth and if it makes you feel better to embarrass them - that is a decision you need to make.

                  I made up my mind.
                  • Wisdom
                    Very Wise words!

                    Until they have walked you into a corner
                  • Nice One M&M
                    Very nice M&M. However, based on what has transpired here your description should be corrected as follows:

                    Curtain up
                    Stage is black
                    A Door opens and a blinding light spills out
                    Three people walk through into the dark
                    Actor 1: I'm here and I've brought the "Voice of Reason" and "Common Sense" with me.
                    Actor 2: Yes we want to talk
                    Actor 3: (Disappears backstage)
                    Actor 1: I'm here and I've brought the "Voice of Reason" and "Common Sense" with me.
                    Actor 2: Yes we want to talk
                    Actor 3: Left the stage..actually left the theatre.

                    Bring up the sound of crickets

                    The two actors hang there heads and leave.

                    curtain.

                    So Mr. Lou Harry (Actor 1). Any developments on the Beer Summit? I think Larry Creviston (Actor 2) has voiced his interest a feew times. Have not heard from CCP (Actor 3).

                  • Nice One M&M
                    Very nice M&M. However, based on what has transpired here your description should be corrected as follows:

                    Curtain up
                    Stage is black
                    A Door opens and a blinding light spills out
                    Three people walk through into the dark
                    Actor 1: I'm here and I've brought the "Voice of Reason" and "Common Sense" with me.
                    Actor 2: Yes we want to talk
                    Actor 3: (Disappears backstage)
                    Actor 1: I'm here and I've brought the "Voice of Reason" and "Common Sense" with me.
                    Actor 2: Yes we want to talk
                    Actor 3: Left the stage..actually left the theatre.

                    Bring up the sound of crickets

                    The two actors hang there heads and leave.

                    curtain.

                    So Mr. Lou Harry (Actor 1). Any developments on the Beer Summit? I think Larry Creviston (Actor 2) has voiced his interest a feew times. Have not heard from CCP (Actor 3).

                  • Feeling humiliated, by you and for you.
                    Here's the disclaimer: I confess I am not a regular reader of Mr. Harry's blog, but I do have long familiarity with the IBJ. I have not performed nor directed in any community theatre outside of Lebanon; I act and direct primarily at Center Stage Community Theatre. But I have worked with many community theatre people from all over central Indiana, including Carmel.

                    Here�s the prologue: You ALL need a time-out. And to be grounded until you are old enough to receive Social Security benefits. You! Sit down, and just hush.

                    Perhaps I am naive, or Victorian in my sensibilities, or perhaps I simply hold a better default opinion of my fellow community theatre artists, to be so disappointed. I am astounded that people who purport to be committed to providing life-enhancing productions and programs are using such a public forum for vicious accusations and cruel personal attacks on one another and on other organizations.

                    Here's the meat: I am horrified by what I have read here. And ashamed -- that such base and flatly nasty monologuing should go on at all among artists; that people in the central Indiana theatre community are spending this amount of energy spewing vitriol in the comments section of a blog; and lastly, airing amateur dramatic arts' dirty laundry in the most prestigious BUSINESS outlet in the state. What you say, how you say it, and where you say it...most of the earlier posters fail on all three counts. Maybe Jeanette Fisher is right -- there aren't any decent, gentle and loving folk around anymore.

                    Don't misunderstand -- I've seen ugly and I know what it looks like ââ?¬â?? my other main avocation is grass-roots activism. The divisiveness and polarization in politics is beyond extreme, and the internet makes everyone a pundit. I must say, however, that in all the blogs, all across the political spectrum from anarchists to skinheads, I have yet to encounter a level of pure poison such as is displayed here. Noam Chomsky could show up at a Tea Party rally and not get the kicking around you all gave one another.

                    Differences of opinion are important ââ?¬â?? crucial -- for if we all think and believe the same way we might as well check our souls at the door. But, crikey! Be civil. Be polite. Be kind. LISTENââ?¬Â¦TOââ?¬Â¦EACHââ?¬Â¦OTHER. Seek common ground. Agree to disagree, if thatââ?¬â?¢s what it requires. But donââ?¬â?¢t keep going with the sniping and the snark. It just makes you (and all of us, by association) look like bickering children. Badly behaved bickering children. And any group involved in this slam-fest should hope like heck potential donors arenââ?¬â?¢t reading this dreck that you have now enshrined electronically for all time. You wonââ?¬â?¢t get a nickel.

                    (By the way�I would respectfully suggest that posters to this thread send an apology to Mr. Harry for using his blog as a litter box. And to one another, for being mean as snakes.)

                    That�s enough from me. Thank you for your time, your electrons, and your attention. I�m going to go read something life-affirming and nurturing now�maybe Glengarry Glenn Ross�
                  • Games.
                    Portia, I do not know you and am not calling YOU "juvenile and silly." I said that playing this game of arguing for exposing of the truth while hiding it is juvenile and silly. Saying that a specific thing you are doing is juvenile and silly is not calling you juvenile and silly.

                    A "real lady" would not engage in the game of condemnation by innuendo that is your current tactic. You are quite clearly attempting to insult and embarrass some people, you just aren't backing it up with specifics. The same specifics you say should be put out there are the specifics you coyly refuse to disclose. A reasonable person might conclude you don't want your allegations subjected to the truth testing of specificity.

                    I am a reasonable person. However, the approach you are taking is not one that would appeal to reasonable people. I'm trying to communicate that to you. I'm open minded and willing to listen to what you have to say. The problem is that you are not willing to say.

                    If you feel the truth is important, as you claim, then spill it. Don't criticize people for not knowing the truth, as you have done, when you refuse to disclose it. That is indeed a juvenile and silly game, and I urge you to bring it to an end.
                  • Still the answer is NO
                    Keith, What I have said is that the Hounds of Heck posters are wrong to blame others for Morphed-CCP in getting blanked. The Morphed-CCP themselves caused it. To explain more would embarrass people. I'm am sure you were as shocked as apparently others were that CCP has had 7 presidents. Likewise the Carmel Mayor followed exactly the process as laid out and made the best decision for Carmel he could. The Carmel City Council backed the mayor in his decision. Have you talked to both sides of this issue as I suggested or are you just waiting for me to spoon feed you the facts?

                    Laurie Atwater, I would say Mr Lou Harry is owed no appology. He pretends to be a journalist but made no attempt to contact anyone except CCP about this story. If he wants to be taken seriously he needs to make more of an effort to be unbiased and to use facts in his writings. We too are sorry this has degraded as it has but when the truth was being so badly used, apparently many of us just had to speak up and let you know you were being ill used.
                  • Portia
                    You GO girl
                  • Both Sides.
                    Well Portia, yes I have talked to both sides and I have not taken sides in this dispute in terms of it being defined as CCP vs. CRT. I made that quite clear and made it quite clear that I did not see question as a dispute between those organizations.

                    I am endeavoring to continue to to talk both sides by TRYING to talk to you. However, you are unwilling to talk and explain your perspective with specifics.

                    You claim to have facts, and I don't mind at all you "spoon feeding" them to me. You seem to feel someone else should "spoon feed" them to me. Why not you, since you are making all these allegations?

                    I'm just asking you to provide the specifics. That's what a reasonable person would ask for, and a reasonable person would answer with them. You aren't doing that.

                    As stated, your approach is one that would not convince even the most reasonable and open minded of people. I tried to explain that to you, but you are apparently not as open minded and interested in listening to what I have to say as you insist I be in regards to what you have to say.

                    I'm done trying. If you have anything to say, then say it. If not, I'll just ignore you as perhaps I should have from the beginning.
                  • Keith, Keith, Keith
                    Let me get this straight, you have talked to both sides? What did each tell you was the cause of the split? I would be interested to know. I would also be interested to know why each told you Morphed-CCP got blanked. If they told you why do you need for me to tell you something that would embarrass a lot of people in an open forum? Just what justification did they give you for the things that they did? What did "The Rep" tell you? Why did so many people follow them? Who did you talk to? If you want me to be forthcomming then lead by example.

                    I would really like to know because knowing all the facts, I can't see how anybody would [you finish this sentence from here - again I'm a Lady].




                  • One last question
                    Why did MorphedCCP last year, knowing for a fact!, they themselves caused the Carmel City Council to zero them out, allowed people associated with their organization to trash (to the point of calling for violence!) people who had nothing to do with their mistakes?

                    They stood by silently allowing their staff members to crucify and try to destroy The Rep and people associated with it. If truth be known the MorphedCCP had board members behind the scenes orchestrating these tirades. Yet they knew it was all a lie. To make matters even worse they accepted praise for being silent instead of setting the record straight. To give MorphedCCP a little credit (or specifically B Koning) they have admitted this year The Rep had nothing to do with their fortunes. Yet the "Hounds of Heck" still put out misleading and incorrect information. Just as they are misleading us into thinking that the Carmel Mayor did something wrong. Do you know how the grant process works? The Mayor and the City Council followed it exactly to the letter.

                    So is this the group you are desperate to save? Does the above group deserve your support? What possible excuse did they tell you for this shameful episode?

                    Or have you asked them?
                  • Sound of Crickets
                    Wow, Portia the silence is deafening. Makes me think of the passage - "...and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord"

                    Perhaps a little truth was all it took.

                    Let's hope "Truth","Common Sense", and "The Voice of Reason" can get together and rule this debate from now on...
                  • How I Learned to Drive
                    Nice article in today's Star about CCP's current production "How I Learned to Drive".
                  • Outsider
                    Jim your entry in not relevant to this thread except that it clearly shows who you are aligned with.
                    =============================================
                    A Sequel to M&M's play written above:

                    Curtain up
                    Stage is black
                    Spot light on Actor 2 sitting on stage left.
                    Enter Actor 4: Hello Actor 2. It appears Actor 1's proposal was nothing but "hot air"
                    Actor 2: Well, I guess you are right...Maybe the truth scared them all.
                    Actor 3: (still running away from theater.)
                    Actor 1: (still nothing)
                    Cue cricket sound again.
                    =============================================
                    So Mr. Lou Harry (Actor 1). Any developments on the Beer Summit? I think Actor 2 has graciously voiced his interest a few times. Have not heard from Actor 3.

                    It is pretty clear that Lou Harry did not really intend to sponsor a beer summit. All he wanted to do was to add a twist in this thread to keep his readership going.

                  • offer
                    Outsider: Not sure how you are so clear on my motives.

                    To sum up: I made an offer. One side responded. One didn't. Result: No beer for anyone.

                    Feel free to continue the discussion here if you like.

                    And feel equally free to visit www.ibj.com/arts if you believe I've been doing nothing since making the offer.

                    Fondly,
                    Lou
                  • Real Question
                    lou - i think the real questioin asked again and again is - why didn't YOU talk to everybody instead of carrying the dirty water for one group?
                  • Lou Harry
                    Doug, I second that. One sided journalism? Hmmmm?
                  • water
                    Doug: Not aware of any dirty water carried.
                    Feel free to e-mail me if there are facts in the blog post that are incorrect.
                    Thanks,
                    Lou
                  • Equal time
                    Larry,
                    You don't get to decide what is relevant and what's not. That would probably be up to Lou.

                    But, to be fair,Carmel Repertory Theatre presents "The Importance of Being Earnest" opening June 11th at University High School.
                    Directed by 2009 Encore winner for best actor in a comedy, Jonathan Horton.
                    I think it best to let the public decide whether or not its money is well spent.
                  • Did you ever get an answer?
                    "No organization can grow if the very same people are in charge year after year after year. Stepping aside to let in new blood and new ideas is a good thing. Theatre is a collaborative art. When it becomes all about one person's vision year after year, stagnation tends to set in."

                    Say Jim, here is a quiz for you: Can you name the 7 presidents CCP has had in 14 years (each serving multiple year terms)? Next, how many presidents has very successful Footlites had in the same time period? Has any area community theater had more changes in the top leadership over the same time period?

                    Yes, you are a CCP Attack Dog either knowingly or unknowinly spreading the falsehoods the ' morphed ' CCP has been spreading over the past year and a half.

                    If you want to have a voice in this debate - please, please, please let it be an informed - true one.

                  • Lou
                    I think the questions are of bias and DID YOU TALK TO ALL SIDES before publishing a morphedCCP's press release.

                    I saw a very right winged "news piece" on how the Federal Government was not allowing a farmer to plow and irrigate a field that had was populated by a bunch of rats. Come to find out they were squirrels not rats. It is just how you can tell the truth and still mislead people. To learn the truth you need to talk to all involved and the truth will be somewhere in between.
                  • Outsider
                    Wow! I just got back from a trip outside the country and checked on this thread thinking there may be more stories. I was mistaken. It sure looked quiet. Maybe the quest for the truth has silenced those who did not know the truth

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                  1. to mention the rest of Molly's experience- she served as Communications Director for the Indianapolis Department of Public Works and also did communications for the state. She's incredibly qualified for this role and has a real love for Indianapolis and Indiana. Best of luck to her!

                  2. Shall we not demand the same scrutiny for law schools, med schools, heaven forbid, business schools, etc.? How many law school grads are servers? How many business start ups fail and how many business grads get low paying jobs because there are so few high paying positions available? Why does our legislature continue to demean public schools and give taxpayer dollars to charters and private schools, ($171 million last year), rather than investing in our community schools? We are on a course of disaster regarding our public school attitudes unless we change our thinking in a short time.

                  3. I agree with the other reader's comment about the chunky tomato soup. I found myself wanting a breadstick to dip into it. It tasted more like a marinara sauce; I couldn't eat it as a soup. In general, I liked the place... but doubt that I'll frequent it once the novelty wears off.

                  4. The Indiana toll road used to have some of the cleanest bathrooms you could find on the road. After the lease they went downhill quickly. While not the grossest you'll see, they hover a bit below average. Am not sure if this is indicative of the entire deal or merely a portion of it. But the goals of anyone taking over the lease will always be at odds. The fewer repairs they make, the more money they earn since they have a virtual monopoly on travel from Cleveland to Chicago. So they only comply to satisfy the rules. It's hard to hand public works over to private enterprise. The incentives are misaligned. In true competition, you'd have multiple roads, each build by different companies motivated to make theirs more attractive. Working to attract customers is very different than working to maximize profit on people who have no choice but to choose your road. Of course, we all know two roads would be even more ridiculous.

                  5. The State is in a perfect position. The consortium overpaid for leasing the toll road. Good for the State. The money they paid is being used across the State to upgrade roads and bridges and employ people at at time most of the country is scrambling to fund basic repairs. Good for the State. Indiana taxpayers are no longer subsidizing the toll roads to the tune of millions a year as we had for the last 20 years because the legislature did not have the guts to raise tolls. Good for the State. If the consortium fails, they either find another operator, acceptable to the State, to buy them out or the road gets turned back over to the State and we keep the Billions. Good for the State. Pat Bauer is no longer the Majority or Minority Leader of the House. Good for the State. Anyway you look at this, the State received billions of dollars for an assett the taxpayers were subsidizing, the State does not have to pay to maintain the road for 70 years. I am having trouble seeing the downside.

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