Naked in Carmel

January 9, 2008
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Few would object, on the one end, to a Norman Rockwell painting being hung in an art gallery window.

Few, at the other end, would approve of a city park screening of a Jenna Jameson skin flick.

But where is the line in between?

Much has been made elsewhere (for example, and about the concerned mothers group that has protested both Clay Terrace’s Victoria’s Secret store and downtown Carmel’s Evan Lurie Gallery of Fine Art (home of the nude door handles) in the name of public decency.

But now that the smoke has died down a little, let’s consider a bigger question: What is and what isn’t OK to display in a public place?

I’m not asking for consensus here. Or for somethig that would pass Constitutional muster. I’m asking for your personal opinion.

What would Victoria’s Secret have to show in its window to get you to add your voice to the protest?  

What would an art gallery have to put in its window for you to say “enough”?

When is a line crossed?

Your thoughts?

FYI: Carmel City Ordinance 6-46 states: "It shall be unlawful for any person to post in any conspicuous or public place within the city any obscene, lewd, indecent or lascivious drawing, photograph, or picture of an indecent or immoral nature…” You can find the legalese here:$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:carmel_in
  • I've got a pretty high tolerance for my personal standards. I don't think there is anything inherently offensive about breasts or skin, but I would probably think that genitalia, male or female would be a good place to draw the line.

    Artistically speaking it would be harder to convince me that any art showing exposed genitalia would merit public display. Victoria's Secret stuff would not qualify. Dirty butts or crude language would get me angry if put on display.

    I find depictions of guns and violence far more offensive than artistic nudity and more pervasive in society. I won't drive down West 38th street on a Sunday because of the pictures of aborted fetuses I had to endure on a recent trip.
  • I took a trip to Florence, Italy, and got to see the original sculpture of David by Michelangelo. David's totally nude with his uncircumcised penis out there for the entire world to see. The statue was sculpted over 500 years ago, and is considered one of the finest works of renaissance art.

    I feel that David would somehow be considered obscene in Carmel.
  • Being an artist myself, who has, on occasion been known to do a few nude depictions here and there, I'm having a hard time understanding how something so natural (the human body) depicted in any form could possibly be offensive.... oh darn, wait, i forgot about spandex pants... nevermind!
  • I think the woman (or women) in Carmel who think that a VS display will cause there daughters to act in promiscuous ways is out of touch with reality. Why don't you do your job as a parent and speak to your children!!! If a VS display causes your daughter to act in such ways then you have failed: not society or some stupid VS display at a mall.
  • Carmel, give me a break. At the risk of stereotyping these people, I wonder if they might need to use their time in a more useful manner. Maybe they could visit a shelter and cook a meal for some homeless people. But that might even offend their sensitivity. Hey, HMPPeaceHouse, do you think any of these people could be wearing spandex?
  • All Carmel-ites are nude under their clothes.
  • Better to have the nudity out in public and generating discussions than to have it sequestered in a kid's closet or garage and generating only lewd comments from his (or her) buddies. What would Carmel do with a Japanese bathhouse? Oh, my.

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  1. A Tilted Kilt at a water park themed hotel? Who planned that one? I guess the Dad's need something to do while the kids are on the water slides.

  2. Don't come down on the fair for offering drinks. This is a craft and certainly one that belongs in agriculture due to ingredients. And for those worrying about how much you can drink. I'm sure it's more to do with liability than anything else. They don't want people suing for being over served. If you want a buzz, do a little pre-drinking before you go.

  3. I don't drink but go into this "controlled area" so my friend can drink. They have their 3 drink limit and then I give my friend my 3 drink limit. How is the fair going to control this very likely situation????

  4. I feel the conditions of the alcohol sales are a bit heavy handed, but you need to realize this is the first year in quite some time that beer & wine will be sold at the fair. They're starting off slowly to get a gauge on how it will perform this year - I would assume if everything goes fine that they relax some of the limits in the next year or couple of years. That said, I think requiring the consumption of alcohol to only occur in the beer tent is a bit much. That is going to be an awkward situation for those with minors - "Honey, I'm getting a beer... Ok, sure go ahead... Alright see you in just a min- half an hour."

  5. This might be an effort on the part of the State Fair Board to manage the risk until they get a better feel for it. However, the blanket notion that alcohol should not be served at "family oriented" events is perhaps an oversimplification. and not too realistic. For 15 years, I was a volunteer at the Indianapolis Air Show, which was as family oriented an event as it gets. We sold beer donated by Monarch Beverage Company and served by licensed and trained employees of United Package Liquors who were unpaid volunteers. And where did that money go? To central Indiana children's charities, including Riley Hospital for Children! It's all about managing the risk.