Plans for a 1,000-room JW Marriott convention hotel now envision a taller building, with a whole new look and a larger pricetag.
The hotel would be 34 stories, up from 29, and the project would cost $425 million, up from $350 million. The city and developers
have been negotiating over details for months and expect to have a final deal in place tomorrow. The Metropolitan Development
Commission gave permission today for the deal to be signed. Full story is here. What do you think?
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I like it!
The biggest challenge for this project is if it will help to create a crisp western edge for the downtown. With White River State Park next door, there will never be anything of height to butress it. So how this acts as a transition or gateway from downtown to park, in my mind, is the crucial play for the hotel.
Did they eliminate the second tower behind the JW Marriott?
Yes, they did eliminate the second mini tower behind the main structure. This, however, means the existing courtyard will now be visible coming from the west.
Regardless, this re-design is an improvement. And anhe: let's hope the glass really is Nouvel-esque; it it is, I think we are going to have a real gem on our hands. Here's hoping!
The shape of the tower seems like an improvement. As for the colors, we'll have to see what they look like for real, in various lighting conditions, etc night, etc.
The key is the street level engagement. That is what was really horrible in the old design. Not only where the buildings bland, but there was a huge blank wall on Maryland and Washington was awful as well.
Indy is famous for generating buildings that look good if you photograph them from one specific angle. But a good building needs to have a 360 degree design, and work both a street level to a pedestrian and to the postcard photographer.
Hopefully significant improvement in these other areas have been made as well.
Also, I'd like to see improvements to widen in the narrow sidewalks in the area into broad promenades spanning the large distance from the core of downtown to WRSP.
More thoughts later.
Fred- The city is in no danger of losing teh 2010 Final Four, that's a done deal. Further, this project had no bearting on that bid anyway. It just would have been nice for the City to have it completed. NOW, for the SuperBowl, this will most definitely have to be completed.
373 feet=height
much more of an impact to the skyline than the previous 317. that makes me much happier.
Why did the price go up? It has less detailing then the older design. Guess there’s an up charge for NON matching glass….. And what 75 million more and they can’t do something with the old hotel. Please. Just demo it and start with a clean site…..
Would like to see more detail of how this connects to the convention center and White River State Park.
Wonder how the revised incentive package is structured.
How will they be incorporated into this design and fit onto this odd shaped plot of land?
Will they be the standard prefab boxes?
In addition, Indy can be proud of the the design review process for this project. It was not so long ago that architecture and design was a non-factor when getting approval by the City. This process is indicative of the changing culture in Indy, where architecture is appreciated and held to a higher standard.
On another note - i still think a green rooftop garden overlooking Victory Field would have been impressive. Also, we still need to see renderings for street level.
I'm glad they made the effort to redesign it again. i was disappointed with the second design and i'm thankful they listened to opinion.
some people say it may be an eyesore in the future...at least it steps out on a limb somewhat. i like it and i like the height.
From what I've seen so far, this seems like a generally good design.
In the sunset rendering there appears to be a consistent look right down to the ground, with windows, on the West St. side. The Maryland St. side still looks like a shoebox (see rendering published in The Star for a view from inside The Vic), but that seems to be a consequence of the building's function as a convention center hotel with ballroom and assembly spaces on the first couple of levels. An exterior smoking balcony overlooking The Vic might be a nice touch though.
One thing that needs to be considered is the morning glare/reflection focused toward downtown (state government complex, Westin, and Simon building) by that arc if the glass has a high level of reflectance.
Considering the potentially spectacular views, it would be nice to have this space utilized as a green roof or outdoor patio restaurant.
It could boost revenue by having a popular rooftop cafe during the summer baseball season and salvage the demand for rooms facing a potential bland view of ugly roofs.
I would pay extra for a hotel room with a nice view of Victory field and a nice garden top cafe.
And as far as the redesign of the JWM goes, the Star has the old and new pictures together in a slide show on their website today. Take a fresh look at the new design, followed by the old design, and tell me that this isn't a MASSIVE improvement. There are certainly still aspects to the new design that some people won't like. But no one can convince me that this isn't way better than before.
The 2010 NCAA Final Four was not the ONLY reason the JW was selected over the IC.
Reason #1) JW is one of the biggest players, domestically and internationally, in the convention business. They have exclusive and/or preferred vendor agreements with thousands of organizations, large and small. Indy wants to tap into that reliable base of convention business; IC comes nowhere close to JW when it comes to having a lock on a sizable portion of the convention income silo.
Reason #2) The JW developers already control the land and existing structures and could, in theory, have started construction immediately. The IC developers could not offer firm pricing because of the recalcitrant owner of the underground parking at Pan Am Plaza who was asking a ridiculous amount to sell. Add to that the City's development restriction covenant on the plaza and this was another easy point in favor of the JW.
Reason #3)
JW was, for better or for worse (for aesthetic reasons, I say worse), was able to offer a variety of different hotels rooms across a huge range of price points. Economically, this makes more sense than constructing one giant luxury tower that would not turn a profit anywhere near as quickly.
Reason #4)
White Lodging's financing plan is cut and dry; Browning was dependent on too many partners and this made the City, which could not afford another debacle like MSA, uneasy.
Reason #5)
The City has long considered the current JW site to be an eyesore and saw this as a great opportunity to build a landmark near White River State Park. The thinking is that as the gateway from the west, that stretch should be beautified first; the core of the city will build up overtime on its own.
Reason #6)
Add to all the above a tiny smidgen of politics. I will say no more on this point.
To make a long story short, the decision boiled down to JW being far less riskier than the IC. Sure, the IC was a better design and is a more prestigious brand but economics ruled the day. I can live with this.
What I cannot live with is the City's baffling failure to mandate, not suggest, some form of LEED certification. Totally mind-blowing. At the very least there should, as many bloggers have noted, a green roof on the low rise section and at least a rudimentary water capture and purification system throughout the complex. When the City drops $48.5 million on a project primarily targeted at convention visitors, we should be making the statement that despite our horrible environmental image, Indianapolis understands the challenges, is modern and is committed to improving the quality of our built environment. What a missed opportunity.
While it is almost certainly too late to add a water capture system, a green roof can still easily be incorporated into the design
In general though, a building can be very sustainable without a green roof, especially one with such a high square footage to roof area ratio. The biggest impact would be if they can significantly reduce the energy and water usage from the baseline. Ironically, this and the previous design hurt that cause by turning the tower 90 degress and exposing an extremely large expanse of glass to the west. The potential solar heat gain can be mitigated but, they are still working from a deficit.
Water and power use are the real keys to green, as the additional enclosed space will represent new demands on the water system, sewage treatment plants, and electric grid. The solar gain is the big deal as anhe pointed out. Not just from the west...the east face will be in sunlight all morning too.
I would like to extend my deepest appreciation for your infatuated curiosity about my daily agenda.
To each his/her own, Happy Holidays!
The IndyStar boards are calling your name.
By the way, Cory, having just read recent posts, in particular from Dusting/Columbia Club Snot, he seems to have crossed the line.
Perhaps he deserves a permanent boot?
Hope you have a Happy New Year!
Great job with the concave, multi-color glass tho... :)