Root causes of the Black Expo shootings

July 19, 2010
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Another Black Expo, another round of shootings, more kids with guns. Unfortunately, these shootings are almost becoming an expectation.

Much is being said about how to stop the shootings, from curfews to shutting down the event on the second Saturday night.

But those would be Band-Aids. What about the larger questions of why children even show up at an event like Black Expo with guns, and why they join gangs? For those with long memories, it hasn’t always been this way. And, as hopeless as it sometimes seems, it doesn’t have to stay this way.

Where did the social fabric tear? And how should it be fixed?

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  • Black Expo
    It seems to me, in this day and age, with so many unruly, poor parented kids, that this type of result could occur anytime you have a celebration of race, ethnicity or nationality. Expecially one as large as the Expo. My suggesion - shut it down. Let the hoodlums that associate with their "whateverness" be it white, black, Latino, or other take their sorry act somewhere else.
  • Maybe
    If they made it a 21+ event, it would cut back on some of the nonsense. It seems like it's always the teenagers who don't know how to act properly in public. As soon as they get away from Mom and Dad they start acting like hoodlums. I think this is a great celebration for those who want to enjoy it peacefully, but the only way that's going to happen is if it's an adults-only event.
  • Disagree
    @BerwickGuy

    This does not occur with any celebration of ethnicity. Look at any local Irish/Italian/Asian/etc festival and it's a family-friendly, safe environment every time.

    I do agree it does need to be shut down however. With the expo, the violence is just going to take place right outside of this "safe zone", so it's pointless really to even bother creating one. Plus, what about the people that are in the safe zone, in say a hotel, but aren't attending IBE. Are they going to have to get patted down and checked just to get to their hotel every day?
  • Crazy
    This year's expo was just outrageous. I think that people started to act a fool thinking that if they started shooting that they wouldn't get caught, and just to be acting stupid. I was there the night of the shootings and I think it was crazy. You couldn't go anywhere downtown without the police telling you no. I just know that next year I'm leaving at 6:00 pm.
    • Star
      Does anyone think that the Star buried this for political correctness? Page 14!!??
      • SHUT IT DOWN
        This is a travesty that our city should
        be ashamed of hosting. Past and Present
        behaviors by the Black Communities warrant that this event should be permantely disbanded. In these tough
        economic times it is a complete waste of
        our tax dollars to support this event.

        • Why the surprise?
          Violent Rap lyrics
          Violent video games
          Violent movies

          The more our youth is exposed to violence, the more they become immune to it. It's not just the parents, it's society too. If you don't think it's a societal problem, then visit any IPS school in any neighborhhod with any racial breakdown.
          • are shootings good for business?
            The Black Expo is bad for Indy tourism and downtown business. Do people want to go to the mall downtown, go eat and shop when there are shootings? Once someone is shot, the average consumer believes downtown is dangerous ALL THE TIME. I think the Indy city planners are afraid to take control of the cities destiny, they are held hostage to political correctness. A health fair/screening is great, but this bling thing at Conseco is a joke! The city needs to get with it and start controlling the product - Indy is a good place to visit, but news like this is bad for business!! I should know, i live downtown and see it everyday!
          • expo
            It most certainly should not be banned. I think when shootings became more frequent on the infield @ the Indpls Motor Speedway they put in bleachers & beefed up security.
            • snowballing
              Violence is recent with this event, but for years I have seen complaints and media reports about unsupervised - and sometimes very young - children roaming the streets at this event. Kids without supervision will do stupid things, and parents without sense will let them go unsupervised. This is a HUGE social problem and one that won't be fixed anytime soon, unless you make people pass a test to get a parent's license.
            • Voice of Reason
              This was just one kid on a shooting rampage. The media seems to want to paint this as some crazy shootout in the streets, but it was just one person that went off the deep end. How do you stop one person who decides to do something like this anywhere, whether in a school, in a train station, on a military base, or in the street? I think it is important to understand the situation before blaming the event, the organizers, the attendees, etc. Even with all the proper planning you could possibly do, as we have seen over and over again, it is very hard to predict and stop such extreme actions taken by one person who decides to go on a rampage.
              • Time for Black Expo to go
                how many years of problems do the rest of us have to endure with shootings and other criminal behavior taxing our already overworked police force and for what? Why not move the Black Expo to the fairgrounds or better yet another city? Indianapolis is one of the last major big cities to even host a Black Expo. And anyway, can you imagine the uproar is we had a "White Expo" in Indianapolis. I can almost certainly say we souldn't have gun play and/or gang activity. Black Expo needs to police itself better and take responsibility for its attendees or find a new home.
              • Disagree with Fed Up
                Indiana Black Expo is a private corporation and its summer festival is an important cultural event that brings millions of dollars into the city. I'm sure they pay for some of the added public safety personnel, as do the Colts and Pacers on game days and as does the Speedway during three races a year. Let's not condemn an organization or its event because some hot-headed 17 year old with a gun has anger management issues.
              • End it
                Every year, this event has the same issues. Why are there issues with an event of this ethnicity? It only seems to be youth that cause a problem on the last Saturday of the event. The Expo staff need to rethink the Saturday night events & put them to an end. I remember last year that the Steak & Shake closed their doors early. I understand why. Would you want that type of trouble in your business let alone your city?
              • It's called a deadline...
                The shootings happened late on a Saturday night, after the Sunday front page had already been put to bed. The article was featured prominently on their website Saturday night.
              • Mentoring-financing
                I volunteer with an organization called "Shepherd Community". The problem is funding and bodies. The churchs in Hamilton Co. can afford multi million dollar additions to attract and pull in more members (usually from each other...) but can barely support those on the front lines serving in the manner that Christians are called to. Not only do they have trouble with funding they can't find the volunteers to mentor kids, serve food, etc. and be a positive influence that these kids need.
              • Guns
                Maybe we should make it harder for people to get guns?
              • Move On
                Indeed it's run is over. Live downtown and dread this expo. They fence off the monument on the circle as well as the fountain on the mall to prevent damage...this is a celebration? The violance displayed will only spill over into the city itself. Let Fort Wayne or Bloomington host the expo.
              • Leadership
                Is this what Dr King fought forâ?¦ An equal opportunity for blacks to shoot themselves? Components of freedom are responsibility, discipline and leadership; unfortunately that has not translated into modern culture. Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and other leaders need to stop pointing fingers on how society has wronged African Americans and start demanding that the Black community take responsibility for their own identity and actions. The time is now! You canâ??t be â??freeâ?? if so many of the youth are locked up in prison. If equality is what is desired then step up to the plate. Demand equality by being equal. The black community needs to realize that no government or outside program can fix the plight that is the inner city ghetto and the mentality that goes with it. It has to be a movement from within. Take responsibility, create a vision and demand action. I have a dream that we will all live in a world free of oppressive stereotypes. But unfortunately some have validity and are not based off of racism but fact. That day will not come unless there is an awakening and that awakening must come from within. Become leaders and stay committed.
              • Shooting Rampage vs Unruly Kids
                This discussion is nuts. People talking about unsupervised kids doing "stupid things", "acting the fool", "acting stupid", "creating this nonsense", etc. I would think I'm reading the complaints about a bunch of kids being loud and acting silly. Come on folks, this was obviously a deeply troubled individual who went on a shooting rampage. He obviously didn't want to kill anyone, because he shot everyone in the legs, but even if nobody dies, this kid is going to spend the majority of the rest of his life in prison and/or a psychiatric hospital for an extremely violent crime. Your comments are playing right into the "unruly chaos" story the media is feeding you. Why isn't this story being treated like what it is, which is more like a Columbine shooting spree ?
              • Really?
                "IBE spokeswoman Elizabeth Hart said she hopes the weekend shootings will not reflect poorly on the organization or event." Are you serious!?
              • let's look deeper
                some of the comments above reflect the fact that we as a society have just accepted the fact that violence is a way of life and we can't do anything about it. When are we going to take responsibility for our actions and the actions of our children? when are we going to teach the basics of respect for one another, It starts one person at a time but it has to start now. Black community step up...white community step up...Latio community step up>
              • Who Got Blamed for Columbine
                Hey KitKat, after the Columbine shooting rampage, did the school and the community get blamed for the actions of the two troubled kids ? If I recall it correctly, everyone felt sorry for the school and the community as they were the victims not the cause of the situation. Rather than blaming the school and the community, everyone reached out to them with love and support. People (kids even) have been shot and are laying in hospital beds, and everyone wants someone to blame, but the event didn't do this and guns didn't do this. A deeply troubled kid did this, and if it wasn't here this past weekend, it could have been at his school next week, or in his place of work 5 years from now, or ???
              • Kids with guns?
                Something like this is an isolated incident. Having a curfew won't stop it. Creating a safe zone won't stop it. Individuals with the potential to act out like this need to be identified by the ADULTS in their life--teachers, parents, community leaders--and be given the help they need before it comes to a crisis. Blaming the event is not at all productive.
                • Content of Character
                  That's what Dr. King asked that his children be judged on instead of the color of their skin. Black Expo has tried to host a positive celebration and convince all of us that they can do so without violence. They've strong-armed every company and government entity in town with thinly-veiled threats by their black employees to support IBE financially, we surrender our city to the black community for a week every year and this is what has been the result.... every single year.

                  My daughter works and lives downtown and sitting down to dinner Saturday night she hears 7 gunshots outside her window. Had one of those shots been aimed at her window and my baby wounded or killed would Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson take ownership of this violence?? Must she flee her home every year during IBE because it is not safe? No, that would be the fault of the Police, or the City, or white society, wouldn't it? It's ALWAYS someone else's fault, someone else's blame, someone else's problem. No outrage, no ownership, no shame. You get on camera and curse Black on Black crime....not CRIME itself! Is black on white crime acceptable, because we have no shortage of sound bite seeking Reverends to tell us that white on black crime is racism. Crime is crime!

                  IBE has lost its right to use our streets, our stadiums, our convention center, our police, our firemen, our patience based on the content of the character of the community it has tried to represent! IBE, you are no longer welcome here. This is not the first and only incident but it must be the last. It took only one man with a gun to end Dr. King's dream and open the eyes of a nation. It has now taken only one punk to destroy your 'celebration' and open the eyes of a city.
                • Taste of Chicago
                  Maybe rename the event?
                • EXPO Shootings
                  JM, a lot of teachers recognize violence in students. Who do they tell? The cops won't do anything unless the kid gets caught red handed committing a crime. A lot of the problem with gun violence is gang related, and kids are joining gangs at unbelievably young ages. Maybe the police should harass gangs. But they had better have the best body armor available and the biggest guns.
                • you said it yourself
                  @JM

                  You just said that nothing will stop this violence at the IBE. So even if they are isolated incidents each year, they're still going to happen as long as the IBE is around for a week every summer. Seems like you've just stated that the only solution left is to get rid of the expo, since nothing else will fix the problem.
                • No Evening Events
                  I think the Expo needs to end early each evening, by 6:00. Trouble always comes at night when people get bored. Perhaps any large gatherings can be held at the State Fairgrounds. When the event is over, people are forced to leave and go home since the facility is closing. They can't just mill about like they do downtown.
                • Nail > Head
                  Kevin said it all. As long as parents allow (and I'll grant that all too often the parents are or might as well be non-existent - the children are raising themselves) - this will continue to worsen. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good role model around that can engage the kids, so they emulate the ones the media foist off on them - gangsters - Oh, I mean "gangstas" - and so forth.
                • Yes, really.
                  VoR: IMHO, you are comparing apples and oranges. This is an EVENT, not a location like Columbine HS or the World Trade Center. Let's compare it to the following list of events that occur in Indianapolis. How many of these celebrations do many people try to avoid out of fear of being caught up in some kind of violence? - Rib Fest, Greek Fest, Italian Fest, Music Fest, Film Fest, 500 Fest, County Fair, Middle Eastern Fest, Jazz Fest, International Fest, Chinese Fest, Drum Corps International, Music for All, Wine Fest, Scottish Highland Games & Fest, African Fest, Pride Parade & Fest, Gen Con, FFA Convention. It is this particular event - IBE - that is the problem. I'd be singing this same tune if Gen Con, the Jazz Festival or the FFA Convention resulted in shots being fired, people being injured, property being damaged. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it. I truly believe that the powers-that-be are spineless...too afraid that they may be perceived as racist or at least politically incorrect to pull the plug on this event.
                • White Expo
                  @ Billy, there are 4 of them a year around hear-Indy 500, Brickyard 400, State Fair, and Marion County Fair. all of these events go out of their way to exclude minorities or to invite artists that people of color prefer to listen to. so that is why IBE was created and has been around for 40+ yrs.

                  Blaming IBE for this episode is like blaming NCAA, NBA, NFL, or MLB for the crazy riots that happen after championship games.

                  the person responsible should be prosecuted to the fullest so that the next person will think twice about doing it again.
                • Star
                  Don't you think that the Star had already gone to press by 10pm?! They fit it in wherever they could...
                • Ideas
                  Black Expo MUST be moved to the State Fairgrounds. The city can no longer afford to keep this event in downtown. It not only costs downtown thousands of dollars in lost revenues during the event, its costs them throughout the year due to people being scared to go to downtown.

                  Why cannot the city have some guts and do this?? Atlanta banned a similar event due to increasing amounts of crime.
                • Not For Teens
                  Most of the problems (shotting and the other more benign issues) result from large crowds of teenagers. Take the teenagers out of the evening mix and you've got a nice event for adults. The expo may just have to program itself to shut down anything for teens past dark. Adults who are going to dinner or bars would probably enjoy it more.
                • Knew they would bury
                  I watched to local news coverage in the morning, and said to myself 'I bet 10 people shot didn't even make the front page'. Bingo. Knew it ahead of time
                • caliboy28
                  Are you people serious?!? Half of these comments and / or suggestions are ridiculous. People aren't afraid to come downtown in general simply due to the isolated incidents that occur during this once a year festival - that is just nonsense.
                  And moving the festival to the State Fairgrounds? Really, Einstein? Try telling that to the hotels, restaraunts, stores and parking garages downtown that get a boost from this event every year.
                  Anyone who claims to live downtown and really thinks this event should be shipped off to somewhere else isn't a real downtowner to begin with. WE dont want or expect our downtown to be void of the energy and excitment that make it an incredible place to live. WE welcome the diversity of the downtown community. WE understand that events like this are vital to the success of our downtown and are what make it the envy of a great many cities across the country.
                  • IBE
                    If you asked the hotel, restaraunt & store managers off the record if they lose money the last Saturday night of Black Expo, I would guarantee a majority would say they lose money. Do you honestly think all those thug and hoodlums on the streets were shopping at Nordstrom and getting shrimp cocktails at St Elmos??
                  • IBE
                    I read all the comments. So much focus is on the event, or on the 1 teenager. Or the city. Or the black community. Or lack of volunteer mentors. Too many violent games or songs. All good ideas. The thing missing in the equation though is family. The breakdown of family in our society, contributes greatly to our crimes. And when our family lives stink we tend to turn to other things to fill that void, dull that pain. Sex, drugs, violence, money, video games, etc....So whether or not Indy bans the IBE, or move it to a different location, all suggestions may help to some extent. But,truth is the family life is mildly mocked in our society while a new form of "freedom" (meaning choices without responsibilty)is embraced. This new freedom leads to teenagers making poor choices. Historically teenagers do not make wise choices. So nothing new there. But the environment from which they are launched into society -- their family experience -- is decaying and so teenagers make poorer choices with more harmful, deadly consequences.
                    • Expo Elephant
                      Discuss the many merits of Expo and diversity all you want, but this event, and the Circle City Classic, are not that good for downtown business. Their economic impacts are inflated and overblown. Too many parties are afraid to call it out. Let's call this the Expo elephant in the room.

                      There's a reason restaurants used to closed, especially on those Saturday nights, before PC pressure forced them to stay open. Expo tends to be a money loser. Regulars and tourists in the know avoid downtown during these events, because it looks and feels like an armed police state ready to blow, which it usually does, and did.

                      Restauranteurs, who will refuse to go on record, say they write off those Saturday nights as the price of doing business in usually prosperous and welcoming downtown Indy. Customers are either afraid, or put off by all the cops and cattle-fencing on those above-mentioned nigght.

                      Some downtown entrepreneurs say what business they have has far too many walkaways, and too much property damage. Believe me, they DREAD it.

                      I'm pretty colorblind about this, and understand most Expo events and seminars are usually peaceful affairs, I've been to some, but this kind of violence and armed encampment atmosphere has way too many negatives.

                      Other big events downtown this year, Final Four and AFC championship, had nothing but good vibes and booming business. Sure there were lots of cops, but nothing similar to the armed occupying force we see at Black Expo.

                      I live in the city, work in the city, and I totally dread these weekends for the damage they do to downtown's reputation and business. This latest incident, no matter how much it's explained and reasoned away, has done irreparable damage to downtown Indy AND Expo. There's too much chaos and fear for our midwestern tastes.

                      Most city leaders, cops, and downtown businesses have always walked on eggshells on this matter, but I fear too many eggshells cracked this weekend, trampled by that Expo elephant in the room. It either has to pack its trunk, or find a smaller, more civilized way to party and prosper with the rest of Indy, black, white, and various shades of brown.
                    • Parkershade
                      Bravo Parkershade! That was a wonderful post!
                    • no way
                      there is no way that violent video games and violent movies had anything to do with this. it's the city they are brought up in and the people the are brought up around. i was brought up watching violent movies and playing games like Grand Theft Auto. I have NEVER stolen a car or shot anyone just for the fun of it. so saying that the violence of todays children is based on video games is just plain ignorant!! look at where they are brought up and who they are living around. larger cities are pretty much forced to sit on their hands when it comes to controlling the violence, even when they can see it coming. If the police department could be allowed to do what is necessary to actually put there foot down and make people stop doing what they do with out having to worry about if they will have a job the next day then events like "Black Expo" could take place safely for everybody and would be more enjoyable for all
                    • What If This Was Your Neighborhood
                      I can't remember a time recently when there has not been an incident surrounding Black Expo. I do feel bad for the organizers as I do believe that they do offer a good avenue to relay necessary education to those who attend. My problem is that Downtown Indianapolis is a neighborhood for those who have purchased homes and condos in the area. At what point did we decide their right to live peacefully in their homes is subject to gun fire, fights in the streets, unsupervised youths running through the streets, etc. If you as a reader don't have a problem with the behavior that seems to plague Black Expo, then offer to move it to your neighborhood. I understand the economic value it brings to our city, but I think the damage it is doing to our Downtown reputation out ways that. If the owners of these homes can't sell those homes because we have allowed an event to tarnish the image of the neighborhood, then shame on us as a city. I remember the days when Downtown Indianapolis was like a ghost town after the normal business work day/week. Now you can go Downtown and walk the streets at 1am and it is still full of people enjoying the nightlife. Don't undo all the good that has been done, by allowing this event to continue. How much more violence has to occur before we say enough?
                    • Judge Dillion & I70
                      Two things torn this city apart. Judge Dillion and I70. Both riped the fibric out of this city. Dillion by taking kids out of their neighborhoods and busing them to other schools across town. School were the center of all activity in the neighborhoods. Most people new each other and their kids. If one kid was doing something wrong, their parents were informed by other neightbors. No gang violence, just growing up in a family environment.
                      I70 split Indianapolis apart in two separated cities
                    • Ideas
                      Lots of great ideas here. Taking the event to the State Fairgrounds seems to be the best approach. IBE has lost the right to utilize our downtown assets. As a taxpayer, they have damaged the value of our city, and I say sack up Mayor Ballard and show them the door to the State Fairgrounds... Yes, it WAS an IBE event that sparked the violence. I don't see it as a black or white thing, its just a lousy event that is poorly managed. The shopkeeps and restauranteers don't want it so why keep it there?

                      Would someone show me some hard numbers on what IBE brings to the City ($) in relationship to all the costs (Cops OT, lost restaurant revenue, etc) it forces us into?

                      You can try all you want to fix the parental and societal problems, and good luck. I hope that all works, its a mess, babies having babies, kids trying to parent, no one cares about anyone in these "families". Do yourself some research - look at Patton's Facebook page, and look at all his friends pages - KIDS with gang signs, cocaine, guns, and stolen merchandise - braggin about it in the open. And not one of them can write a complete sentence. How embarrassing. Now just listen to his Mom speak on TV. This all tells me this is going to be a loooooong process. So in the meantime, take the thugs off our streets until IBE can get their act together and stop wasting all our tax money on cops' overtime and other nonsense.

                      Can we have our city back please?
                      • open
                        the only way the city is going to be taken back by all of the good hard working, law abiding people is to stand up and do it yourself. obviously the police aren't going to do it for us. the only way to make it safe is to put your foot down and start scaring all of those people who think they are gangsters and thugs. all of these kids out on the streets with guns and drugs think it's cool because their family/friends have taught them nothing better. personally i feel that if the city isn't going to make the city safe then the answer is simple. we have to! if the police aren't going to stand up and do what they need to do to protect the people of indianapolis then we are going to have to do it ourselves. people are going to have to stand up and do what is necessary to put an end to all of the violence and drugs. of course in order to do so it's going to take more violence but the end result will be better than doing nothing. just like what is being done now absolutely nothing!
                      • IBE
                        The IBE needs to be honest with itself and needs to assess what they really want "the event" to be: either a convention, like many other successfull conventions that come to our town (FFA, Fire, etc, etc) - with seminars, nationally renowned speakers, award ceremonies, black entrepreneur events, job fairs, etc.' OR a thug fest, with moronic, infantilized "artists", hordes of unsupervised, disrespectful scum kids roaming downtown with a huge police force needed to prevent mayhem from breaking out at any second. The IBE should be (and could be) a jewel for this city, instead of the black eye that it perpetually presents. Tanya Bell, you can't have it both ways, and think that a few police barricades and more frisking will stop the problem - you are going to have to choose. Which will it be: a black jewel or a black eye?
                      • change it or get rid of it.
                        Marie...I agree with you. Not only move it away from the downtown area but change it to the end of February when it's cold and also shorten it. Do something different instead of making the same plan every year.
                      • Phantom frequent Speedway shootings
                        @jc

                        I've never heard of anyone being shot at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and I've been to every race since the mid 1980's. I'm not going to say it's never happened but you've got to be kidding about "frequent" or have never been to a race there. Please provide proof of these "frequent" shootings in the infield.
                      • The truth about Expo
                        Parkershade-

                        You are correct sir. I know many downtown business owners/managers and every single one of them would prefer to just close during the Expo weekends. Especially the second one. Steak n' Shake did just that last year but got a pr nightmare out of it so that's why most places don't close.

                        The businesses down there deal with a lot these weekends. Extremely rude patrons, lots of walkaways on checks, extremely poor tips, property damage, fights, etc. It just isn't worth the hassle.

                        Without fail, downtown businesses love events like the Big Ten tourney, the races, etc. I've yet to hear a single business owner, manager, server, etc. with a good thing to say about Expo. Actually, they pretty much all hate it but avoid saying that in the press so they don't have Rev Al marching in front of their place.
                      • SRSLY?
                        He's been arrested 7 times (local WISHTV-8) and they found gunS and live rounds in his bedroom at his Momma's house when they served a search warrant. He is a known gang member (again local media reports) and his Momma says he didn't do it 'casue she ain't heard the evidence to support it?

                        What a complete waste of parent. Lady, you should go to jail too.
                      • They make it very hard not to be racist
                        EVERY black get together is marred with violence! From Freaknick to something as simple as a black gospel festival. Everytime. I am white, and I would never travel to a town that is having any organized black festival. From Black Bikers week at Myrtle Beach to the Hip Hop Gangsta Rap convention in Miami, the town shuts down and legitimate business board up like a Hurricane is coming. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of undisputable fact. The solution HAS to come from within the black community. The theme has got to be that this won't be tolerated instead of, "it was just a few misguided teens". There is no responsibility that is claimed in the black community. Being black does not give them the right to do whatever they want, usually to another black.. and get away with it. Nothing but excuses. It's time Black leaders! Do something responsible.
                      • You are really, really ...
                        dumb. Most hotels, restaurants, businesses closed because they knew this event would be a hotbed for crime. It happened last year and the year before and if they have it next year, it will get even worse. The businesses in downtown lose a lot of money because they have to shut their doors because of this "ghetto" and "racist" meeting.
                      • sick of the expo
                        I am sick of the expo, and the crowd they attract. The crowd attracts crime, prevents us from enjoying OUR DOWNTOWN, brings in scores of rude people. I am sick of encountering young punk kids roaming around downtown during this event, SHOOTING Hoosiers. The city has had a problem with black expo attendees bailing out of their hotel rooms without paying their bill. When hotels demanded they secure hotel rooms with a credit cards, they screamed they were being discriminated against! I am tired of this EXPO. GO AWAY to Detroit!
                      • correct etiquette
                        Unfortunately the terrible behavior of so few can affect many. This is a wakeup call for IBE officials who in the future must emphasize to attendees to be on their best behavior or Indy may lose the Black Expo. This is an event with which people from all over the nation attend. I emphasize again that IBE officials must become more active in communicating to the attendees of this event that violence and rude behavior will not be tolerated and work hand in hand with the Indy police force IBE makes a ton of money on the black expo use some of it to get the word out that violence and rude behavior will not be tolerated.
                        • Evaluate it's worth logically.
                          Have any of you been to the downtown area while this is going on? Our city leaders host this event in Indianapolis and for what? To fill the streets with African Americans just to prove how "unracist" the city is? If you want proof of that, just look at the city leaders and general racial make up the entire city. Seriously, evaluate this logically and rationally, is this event even really worth the trouble and effort? If so, I'd like to see statistics that prove a case one way or the other. Hundreds of extra cops, the jails filling up, shootings and rapes have been reported, what's the cost and crime rate statistics? Are the local expenditures covered by the attendees money spent on the local economy? What are the effects of this event in very real terms of property damage, crime, property value and costs to the city? Why haven't our town leaders provided these statistics and facts to prove a case one way or another?
                        • really
                          rap muusic isint the cause of this rappers arnt the cause of this they are just entrtainers trying to entertaine and not many black kids play video games their more into out of the house things like the movies the mall skateing bikes walking and talking with friends. movies are violent sometimes but thats not something we can help and i dont think you caz put rated r on everything that has fighting shooting and cussing in it pg13 for cussing maybe but theres fighting in almostall movies

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                        1. Apologies for the wall of text. I promise I had this nicely formatted in paragraphs in Notepad before pasting here.

                        2. I believe that is incorrect Sir, the people's tax-dollars are NOT paying for the companies investment. Without the tax-break the company would be paying an ADDITIONAL $11.1 million in taxes ON TOP of their $22.5 Million investment (Building + IT), for a total of $33.6M or a 50% tax rate. Also, the article does not specify what the total taxes were BEFORE the break. Usually such a corporate tax-break is a 'discount' not a 100% wavier of tax obligations. For sake of example lets say the original taxes added up to $30M over 10 years. $12.5M, New Building $10.0M, IT infrastructure $30.0M, Total Taxes (Example Number) == $52.5M ININ's Cost - $1.8M /10 years, Tax Break (Building) - $0.75M /10 years, Tax Break (IT Infrastructure) - $8.6M /2 years, Tax Breaks (against Hiring Commitment: 430 new jobs /2 years) == 11.5M Possible tax breaks. ININ TOTAL COST: $41M Even if you assume a 100% break, change the '30.0M' to '11.5M' and you can see the Company will be paying a minimum of $22.5, out-of-pocket for their capital-investment - NOT the tax-payers. Also note, much of this money is being spent locally in Indiana and it is creating 430 jobs in your city. I admit I'm a little unclear which tax-breaks are allocated to exactly which expenses. Clearly this is all oversimplified but I think we have both made our points! :) Sorry for the long post.

                        3. Clearly, there is a lack of a basic understanding of economics. It is not up to the company to decide what to pay its workers. If companies were able to decide how much to pay their workers then why wouldn't they pay everyone minimum wage? Why choose to pay $10 or $14 when they could pay $7? The answer is that companies DO NOT decide how much to pay workers. It is the market that dictates what a worker is worth and how much they should get paid. If Lowe's chooses to pay a call center worker $7 an hour it will not be able to hire anyone for the job, because all those people will work for someone else paying the market rate of $10-$14 an hour. This forces Lowes to pay its workers that much. Not because it wants to pay them that much out of the goodness of their heart, but because it has to pay them that much in order to stay competitive and attract good workers.

                        4. GOOD DAY to you I am Mr Howell Henry, a Reputable, Legitimate & an accredited money Lender. I loan money out to individuals in need of financial assistance. Do you have a bad credit or are you in need of money to pay bills? i want to use this medium to inform you that i render reliable beneficiary assistance as I'll be glad to offer you a loan at 2% interest rate to reliable individuals. Services Rendered include: *Refinance *Home Improvement *Inventor Loans *Auto Loans *Debt Consolidation *Horse Loans *Line of Credit *Second Mortgage *Business Loans *Personal Loans *International Loans. Please write back if interested. Upon Response, you'll be mailed a Loan application form to fill. (No social security and no credit check, 100% Guaranteed!) I Look forward permitting me to be of service to you. You can contact me via e-mail howellhenryloanfirm@gmail.com Yours Sincerely MR Howell Henry(MD)

                        5. It is sad to see these races not have a full attendance. The Indy Car races are so much more exciting than Nascar. It seems to me the commenters here are still a little upset with Tony George from a move he made 20 years ago. It was his decision to make, not yours. He lost his position over it. But I believe the problem in all pro sports is the escalating price of admission. In todays economy, people have to pay much more for food and gas. The average fan cannot attend many events anymore. It's gotten priced out of most peoples budgets.

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