Penn Centre delayed but not dead

February 29, 2008
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Penn CentreConstruction won't begin on the ambitious Penn Centre proposal for at least a few more months, but the project still is a go, said developer J. Greg Allen, who also is renovating Jefferson Plaza. Allen said his team is waiting on the Ballard administration. The new mayor has put a hold on most projects that are seeking city incentives. A meeting with the mayor is set for mid-March, Allen said. Plans call for two towers with two hotels, dozens of condos and up to six restaurants along Pennsylvania Street across from Conseco Fieldhouse. The developers had hoped to break ground in October 2007, then set a target of January. "Hopefully we'll be moving again here real quickly," Allen said.
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  • I wouldn't object to a tax abatement on this project. Even a reduced tax rate over the abatement period is still more than the city is getting today, so is a net revenue producer. However, TIF subsidies should not be given. It shouldn't take actual cash from the city to make this project work.

    On the whole, it sounds like a good project in a great location, so I very much hope it moves forward.
  • BTW: That is an inauspicious posting id.
  • good I hope this goes through.......it would be great for that little pocket of downtown........but 6 restaurants??? that would put quite a few in a small area.......I hope that we continue getting the conventions to support all of them!
  • Six restaurants? And the winners are.

    1. Arby's
    2. Taco bell
    3. Wendy’s
    4. China buffet
    5. Long John Silvers

    And not last a

    6. Starbucks

    I’ll have 5 deep fried and one with Foam, Alex.

    I don't see this flying now. With every Tom Dick and Developer wanting tax incentives. Ballard’s closing the coin purse. And with Conseco field house needing a parole office. Timing is not good.
  • Good news! Glad to hear this is still moving forward.

    ...And very glad bob is not in charge of this project! ;-)
  • I agree the timing right now is not good, but that would also be quite short sighted. This is at least a 2 year project, so look 2 years out (new airport, new stadium, new convention center) and the timing looks much better.

    I think this is the most significant proposal on the table for downtown Indy, even more so than the JWM which I'm afraid will draw traffic away from the downtown core.

    I really hope the mayor sees its importance as well.
  • sobe - draw traffic away from the downtown core? The JWM, while not in the exact geographic center of downtown, is still smack dab in the middle of everything that is downtown. Why can't we look at this outter development as expansion of that core you speak of?

    That said, this IS a very key development for downtown and I am confident it will come to fruition!
  • 6 restaurants...? Let's start with one or two which are NOT franchised or chains. Perhaps a Indy Business College culinary restaurant to showcase the up and coming chefs...? It could be a great incubator start local cooking talent...
  • Like I have said before and I will say again and again and AGAIN....this project is DEAD! The writing is on the wall....but it is kinda cute for everyone to keep dreaming...
  • Marshall,

    I'm not an expert on much, but I do travel every week for a living. If I found myself staying at the JW Marriott in it's location, there is an 80-85% chance that I would not leave the complex and would spend my money there (which is exactly what White is hoping for). If, this hotel complex was on say Pan Am Plaza, proximity alone would entice me explore the neighboring restaurants and nightlife.

    I enjoy development that adds to the fabric of a city (like Penn Center), I don't care for islands of massive development that other than a souless 1/4 mile utilitarian gerbil tube, has no connection with the rest of downtown.
  • Waiting on the Ballard administration.....Better get used to that folks. Mayor Chinatown is not even filling chuckholes, let alone addressing critical developement issues.


    Hey - I didn't vote for him. did you?
  • Full of Hooey:

    You didn't vote for him So? Neither did 75% of Indy residents. This isn't about Mayor Ballard, it's about politics. Regardless of whom won the election, the victor had to prepare himself for criticism about offering incentives even if they are the right thing to do. Mayor Ballard or anyone else would have to take a brief time to review the plans of projects such as this and seek advice and opinions from reputable sources.

    Let's all offer positive voices of support for important projects such as Penn Centre for Indy. Thanks, Cory, for keeping us up to date.
  • Oh, OK, Mr. Know it all Berwick. How on earth do you separate the Mayor's office from PPolitics? SAME DAMN THING!

    Incentives? duh. I'll bet this guy doesn't even know what Eco-Devo is. Much less a good incentive package from a bad one.

    He wasn't prepared to testify on the Capital; I doubt he is ready to understand anything as complex as this.

    But we sure need a Chinatown and a Cricket field.

    I digress, and you best keep your eye on all of this. The accidental mayor is in WAY over his head. A puppet of the FOP, he will, in short time, cut budgets from Judicial (over 2 million) Public Defenders (over 1 million), gut the arts budget, and slash jobs at DPW. This guy thinks the city budget is his own personal checkbook. You think we got problems now?? LMAO.

    Remember my comments, and just watch.
  • That's pretty harsh Da Hooey. I would say that Mayor Chinatown has a lot of vision. Are any other Chinatowns adjacent to a Hillbillyville?
  • Evidently, I appear to have made my opinion pretty clear. :D The big cuts are coming. Keep your eyes on the chuckhole problem. Has anyone even seen a DPW truck and crew out addressing this problem?

    However, I am not sure I understand you last question there. Can you rephrase it please?
  • I'm glad to see this has a chance. I hope Ballard does the right thing and works to make this happen.
    I'm still ticked that the art funding was cut.
  • Of all the existing Chinatowns, how many are located near a large concentration of hillbillys? If Mayor Chinatown wants to build a Chinatown on the near-southside, then it will simply be China meets Appalachia.
  • OK. Now I get what you are saying.

    Made a trip downtown with the wifey last night (a friends birthday party) and saw the invasion. Billies everywhere. Motocross @ the Dome! Wooohooo! My GOD I had no idea we had this many gomers in the state. Can you imagine what they would do to the dream of Mayor Chinatown?

    GED people. Get one.
  • Hey Da Hooey, even people who don't drink Grey Goose have green money and spend it downtown. If you read the paper this morning, there's a story about how long motocross has been filling the Dome.

    Don't forget that the two largest single-day sporting events IN THE WORLD are races in Indianapolis. I can't imagine anyone moving to (or worse, growing up in) Indy without understanding how automobile manufacturing and motor racing permeate the culture here...along with farming and religion. I suppose you don't like it when 50,000 FFA or Disciples of Christ people flood downtown with their green dollars, either? They're certainly not competing with you for tables or barstools at your favorite haunts.

    Live and let live, I say. There's room for everyone's money downtown.
  • Just curious, why do you call Ballard as Mayor Chinatown?
  • Cletus sorry the southside isn't Carmel enough for you.
    Lower class people are scary arent they?
  • Isn't chinatown going to have a cricket field as well?
  • Fascinatin to see how many so called business' people at a site where the middle name is Business all salivating for socialist tax handouts.

    We're short $10 million a year paying for the stupid stadium.

    There's no more money.
  • on an unrelated note. Here are photos of the progress on the broadbent building.


    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2038/2305970121_4854c0ab05_b.jpg
  • http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080222/NEWS08/802220474/1101/COLUMNISTS19

    mayor chinatown e'splained.
  • I'm going to give Ballard the benefit of the doubt. DaHooey have you ever been mayor of a large city? Do you have any idea what that takes? I prefer to wait and see what he does and judge him on his actions or inacations. And yes I have seen chuckholes filled. Many of them in fact.
  • Firewoman, yes, I was mayor of Denver for 236 years. Before that I was Willy Wonka, and before that.... :lol:

    C'mon, you make it sound like unless I have been a myor of a large sity, I am not permitted to have an opinion? GMAFB. Look, I have worked with some of the finest, and some of the worst. I am a D, but I know the key players on every side of the fence, in both the Statehouse, and City Hall. And let me tell you something - keep your eye on this guy. He has NO experience running a governement, which is, and i know this for a fact, pretty dissimilar to running a supply line for the army. I'm not going to rehash what my problems with this guy are, but his inexpereince is the starting point for all of this. He's got some good people surrounding him - Scott Newman for one, and some real party-line jerks - namely Bob Grand and the Governor's sister.

    When the governor signs off on that 1% cap on property taxes, we'll be 130 million in the hole here in Indy. And that is a conservative estimate.

    Please tell me where the chuckholes are that have been filled.
  • seems to me that da hooey is still drinking the Bart Koolaid. Give it up Bart ran the city into the ground. He wasted money on his friends and spend zero on public safety. I for one am glad to see cuts in the arts. It is a complete waste of money. Maybe Da Hooey was one of Barts friends that recieved large sums of money for doing nothing. Slash the arts and dont fill the pot holes until spring. If you cant drive around a pot hole then learn to drive and if you want art goto our multi million dollar library.
    Sorry Da Hooey, you need to stop drinking the Koolaid its gone bad.
  • I for one am glad to see cuts in the arts. It is a complete waste of money.

    What an ignorant comment. Please educate yourself.
  • Somebody please start another Indy Undercover or something so the childish political bickering can take place someplace other than a real estate blog. Can't we stay on the topic here?
  • Wow. Yeah, Bart sent me a check for 50 large each month. :lol:

    Indy underciver is run by disgruntled FOPers. The Accidnetal Mayor blog is run by some whack job young woman who has a deep hatred of all things Republican.

    I just call it like I see it. And I think we really do need chuckholes filled. And Arts funding.

    And Bill? Politics and development are BFFs. Cory ddoes a nice job here, but open discussion is fun.

    I'll throw another one out there - what happened to 49th and College deal? Any news there? corner looks horrible.
  • Da Hooey,

    Corner has looked horrible for years, since the developer bought the old corner market and let it go to he(ck). Word on the street is he wants to get LIHTC.
  • Rather than a Chinatown, why not a Little Mexico? Oh, it already exists on W. Washington! Maybe the city could play it up a bit more? Give them some funding to promote themselves, erect some signage etc. Silly me, that would never work...the legislature is trying to force the Mexicans out of state with their bigoted immigration bill.
  • uh. does Indianapolis have a large Chinese population?

    It seems to me that chinatowns in larger cities are usually older parts of town. You know,back when they actually were segregating everybody.

    To create a chinatown now, would be kind of awful.
  • I work downtown and have to tell you that I havent seen anyone on the bike path(stolen travel lane) on ALabama yet. I sure hope it gets lots of traffice when the weather warms up. What the city needs is more stupid dancing lights, or a few more bronze stautues of fat people. Maybe a talking head, or a few more stickers on the catwalks. Those things really say come to Indy, live in Indy, spend your money here.

    Wow what a bunch of people with misplaced priorities. Let people build their own buildings where and how they want to. Thanks Cory for the information you provide. I just get tired of reading how horrible the city is because of the lack of Arts and the wrong style of buildings.
  • amused -- there are exactly the same number of travel and parking lanes on Alabama as there used to be (3 and 2, respectively).
  • it's seems amused has found his/her way here from the indystar posts. first the classic conservative/myopic drinking the Koolaid line and then the arts and cultural trail bashing. wow, now i'm sounding like an indystar poster, but i had to come up for air. glad to see penn centre is still a go!
  • Oh LORD, not the Indystar boards?!

    Look, successfully running a city takes a balanced approach, experience, and a will to get things done. No mayor this city has ever had was perfect. All any of us are doing is pointing out - in our own personal opinion - what is going on right, and what is happening bad.

    Right now I see more bad than good. Does it mean Ballard won't succeed? Of course not. He's got some goofy ideas, and I wish him well. He DOES seem easily swayed (note the immediate influx of party regulars once he won the election - something he ran opposed to) so perhaps there is hope. Simple guy it appears he is.

    Taxes!
  • This has turned into the Indy star boards.
    Arts should be funded, it is a vital part of our society and culture. Everywhere you look art has influenced something.
    DJ, I think your talking about the bill for ILLEGAL immigration. The government has to enforce the law every now and then. =/
    Amused its freezing out, your not going to see many bikers right now. The summer will change that. God forbid we take a precious car lane, since cars are so healthy for this society! God forbid we encourage people to what is that called? Walk?
  • I've seen plenty of people biking down the trail......I'm sure many more will once it warms up
  • First the Bike Path and Cultural trail was private donations.

    Second, I'm starting to love the look of the Broadbent Building. Very nostaligic yet up-to-date. I was nervous looking at the sketches but it is going to be a very nice addition.

    Third - I'm wanting to start a countdown till Scotty's opens. I'm sick of driving to the North Side all the time to wait an Hour and 15 minutes!

    Pot holes have been filled. Some on Meridian, 40th, Central off of 38th, Capitol near 25th, Boulevard place near butler, Pennsylvania near 16th!

    Get out more!
  • Hmmm. notice he's not filling any potholes north of 40th Street???


    :lol:
  • Notice he probabaly is, I just don't drive north of 40 cause thats where I live. Butler is North of 40 though. And My friend who lives in Ivy Hills off of 79th and Allisonville said that allisonville near 60th (I think there is a WB's Pizza There) just had some potholes redone.
  • Funny. I live right over by the WBs in an elite section of Washington Township. :lol: The cross street is 62nd Street and if a pothole fillin truck went by, it forgot to fill any potholes.

    Whatever. I shouldn't let facts get in the way of my agenda.
  • Helen and other founding members of this blog-

    It is sad that this place has gone to hell in a basket, as it was a nice respite for those of us that love our City and want to see it acheive! Some of you may have noticed that I don't post here as much due to the negativity. If I want that, I will hang out on Indystar. I find it sad that there are so many citizens in this City that have such negative attitudes toward our fine little 'burg. Sure, there are problems, but they exist everywhere. Indy is doing a lot of things right as the growth rates indicate. HOWEVER, our citizens and leaders do need to understand that you get what you pay for. If you don't pay for anything, then guess what, don't expect to recieve a return. In this case, tax credits, similar to the structure laid out for the Conrad would be sufficient.

    As for the delays, these types of delays occur often, especially with large projects of this nature. I agree that the improtance of this is huge and would really add a lot to the urban fabric around the Fieldhouse...not to mention some needed height in this area of the Mile-Square.
  • Totallyy agree with DJ....Little Mexico already exist on W. Washington..a major street improvement..say somethihg like 38th street would be great! From what I can tell that community is trying to hold itself up pretty well...the city should help them become an asset!...I have never heard of this Chinatown thing...did Ballard servr over there or something. I've tried to look information up on the subject to no avail...can someone fill me in?

    And, yes I am very skeptical of development in this city with Ballard in office, although I do like the way he is handling IMPD.

    It is very sad the arts and cultural community are being left out.

    oh, and trust me I was no Bart fan.
  • Actually I have to admit I am not crazy about the Disciples of Christ coming to town every year, the FFA is ok...they both spend money so I guess that's what it's really all about. Louisville wants the FFA back so bad they'll probably rent thier cattle barn convention center out for free and the Farm boys won't get the differences between the two but hey it's thier money.

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  1. I am so impressed that the smoking ban FAILED in Kokomo! I might just move to your Awesome city!

  2. way to much breweries being built in indianapolis. its going to be saturated market, if not already. when is enough, enough??

  3. This house is a reminder of Hamilton County history. Its position near the interstate is significant to remember what Hamilton County was before the SUPERBROKERs, Navients, commercial parks, sprawling vinyl villages, and acres of concrete retail showed up. What's truly Wasteful is not reusing a structure that could still be useful. History isn't confined to parks and books.

  4. To compare Connor Prairie or the Zoo to a random old house is a big ridiculous. If it were any where near the level of significance there wouldn't be a major funding gap. Put a big billboard on I-69 funded by the tourism board for people to come visit this old house, and I doubt there would be any takers, since other than age there is no significance whatsoever. Clearly the tax payers of Fishers don't have a significant interest in this project, so PLEASE DON'T USE OUR VALUABLE MONEY. Government money is finite and needs to be utilized for the most efficient and productive purposes. This is far from that.

  5. I only tried it 2x and didn't think much of it both times. With the new apts plus a couple other of new developments on Guilford, I am surprised it didn't get more business. Plus you have a couple of subdivisions across the street from it. I hope Upland can keep it going. Good beer and food plus a neat environment and outdoor seating.

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