Proposals for MSA project ranged from $70M to $117M

July 16, 2013
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Here’s a rundown of the winning and losing bids submitted by the teams vying to develop a portion of the former Market Square Arena site. City officials selected the proposal from Flaherty & Collins.
 

msa 225pxFlaherty & Collins
Stories: 28
Units: 300
Office space: none
Retail space: 43,600 square feet
Cost: $81 million
Public incentives: $17.8 million

msa milhaus rei
                              225px

Milhaus/REI Investments
Stories: 18
Units: 192
Office space: 85,500 square feet
Retail space: 36,000 square feet
Cost: $70.2 million
Public incentives: $17.1 million
 

msa key forest
                              225pxKeystone Group/Forest City
*Stories: 35
Units: 306
Office space: none
Retail space: 50,000 square feet
Cost: $117.9 million
Public incentives: $19.3 million

*rendering was for originally proposed 52-story tower

msa barrett
                              225px

Ryan Companies/Barrett & Stokely
Stories: 23
Units: 251
Office space: none
Retail space: 36,902 square feet
Cost: $80.6 million
Public incentives: $21.5 million


msa brown
                              whitt 25px

Browning Investments/The Whitsett Group
Stories: 20
Units: 290
Office space: 203,000 square feet
Retail space: 41,400 square feet
Cost: $114 million
Public incentives: $19.9 million to $25.9 million

 

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  • Phew
    The 52 story one looks pretty good! I do like the 28 story final choice. Love the roof with the trees in it, hope that stays. Thank goodness they didn't choose one of the other three boxes.
  • :-(
    What a shame they made Keystone lower their height. That tower looks amazing.
  • Good Choice
    Looking through these, I really do think Indy made the best choice. Milhaus just looks oddly proportioned. Keystone, while beautiful, was probably just too big and it doesn't look like it addressed the street-level as much. Ryan and Browning both are too square and already look dated. Good job, Indy!
  • Questions?
    I can't really tell from the rendering, but are they proposing a parking structure with flat (not sloped) floors? If so it could be converted later to other uses. Will the traffic pattern or width of Market be affected? And finally, did the Keystone proposal include subterranean parking? It doesn't appear they have a parking structure in their rendering.
  • Nice, but just watch....
    The selected proposal is easily the most interesting of the 5, and while taller might have been more exciting, I agree completely with earlier comments on another comment string that 28 stories is perfectly scaled for that part of downtown. But I will go on record now in predicting that this is only an image meant to 'sell' the selection committee, and will change dramatically by the time a final design is released. I doubt seriously whether the curved, tapering fins at the east (and presumably west) facades will survived, nor the alternating punched balconies on the north (and south?)facades. The excuse here will be one of 'efficient constructibility'. The green floor opening will probably survive in some watered down manner, given that it is so prominent a feature. Ideally, the city and the advisory committee would have diligently included design 'stipulations' as a condition of their support. ...... Mark Baltazar's words!
  • Apartments
    I have serious doubts that the downtown area can support this massive onslaught of upper-scale apartments that have been, are currently being, or will be constructed in the near future. As the housing market continues to recover, what will keep people in high-price apartments in the city vs. homes just outside the downtown area? When will the developer apartment bubble burst?
    • Iconic?
      I think the chosen proposal looks like the best choice out of the 5...As long as the winning propidal's facade is varied (which is shown, but still unclear). However, none of the proposals seem to have that game changing character to really alter the most boring skyline in the country. Yes, it's better than the JW (ghee, let's not hope for the end product becoming JW's sister!!!) but these circular towers are a bit feminine and screams HOUSTON or LAS VEGAS!!! Indy should be proud of it's heritage and have gone with a design which would make places like Louisville, Cincinatti, St Louis, Pittsburg and other cities think twice about who we are as a design and working community. Ghee...it's the skyline!!! What better way to make a bold statement?
    • Pefect
      The selection restores my faith in the selection process. While not totally daring or "iconic" as requested, the shape and appearance are SO MUCH BETTER than the J.W. Marriott gravestone look. It's judge edgy enough (or perhaps just the right absence of edges) while not being too much like something Frank Gehry might design. Hope it makes it through pretty much as shown.
    • Balthazar makes an interesting point
      Anyone know the typical relationship between bid renderings and as-builts? I agree with most of the posters that it's an attractive building, as drawn.
    • Best choice Indy!
      I think the city made the best choice and I appreciate the fact that the building has a more organic shape with the curved sides and varying depths. It's a refreshing and welcome addition to add some interest to our skyline. The green roofs on both the building and the parking structure are perfect additions to this design. Please, please, please keep this design and don't water it down. This can be a catalyst to improve the design standards of buildings downtown. My only complaint is that the parking structure walls look plain and boring relative to the rest of the building. I'm sure it's possible to create an aesthetically interesting parking structure.
    • Lighter Building
      Anyone else think the Keystone proposal looked like a lighter? It could have been the Lighter Building. I like the one the city chose, but the Lighter Building sounds awesome.
    • @Todd
      Absolutely! A 52 story Bic lighter. It even has the slot that lets the air into the combustion chamber.
    • MICAH
      While far from the BEST, if you think Indy has the most boring skyline in the country, you obviously haven't done much travelling.
      • Ok Marshall
        Ok, I really am trying to think of one that is much worse than INDY'S...Any suggestions? I will say, this proposed tower would help it significantly.
      • Not Designed Yet
        In response to some of the questions as to whether the design will change. Yes it will. The city's request for proposals specifically stated that a designed building wasn't a required portion of the submittal. While the images above likely portray the idea of what was to come, it is unfair to judge them too harshly on their design. The images are just some architect's rapid attempt to have an image to accompany the financier's proposal.
      • Looks like a stick of deodorant to me
        When will the restaurant taxes go up again?
      • Another "wall"
        I suspect if this gets built many of you are going to be very disappointed. Basically this building is a wall much like the JW. It looks very much like the existing Westin and old Marriott with the curved ends with glass attached like the JW. Doubtful the "textured" ends, which, are the only remotely interesting features of this building,even survive the nuts and bolts final. The parking structure looks to overwhelm the design from the street. If this is the "iconic" structure the city was looking for, we are seriously more challenged than anyone ever thought. Brownings plans should tell you a lot about where we are in the design "food chain". Not good.
      • Micah and "Good"
        Micah-- "Good" and "bad" skylines are about as subjective as Super Bowl commercials. While you obviously enjoy passing your opinions of the city as objective truth, I can assure you that a hundred other factors help other people make those same determinations, and Indy doesn't likely end up near the top or bottom of most people's lists...for people who care about this stuff, that is (which really isn't many)
        • Sassafras
          Indy's skyline has no iconic structure. Is that good or bad? I guess your opinion on that is your opinion. From your comment above your attitude seems to be in line with the local norm: anything built is better than nothing. I don't know, that's just what it sounds like. Back to INDY'S CONSERVATIVE skyline: I think it does tell others (especially outsiders) where we stand within the "design food chain"...as GARY BO states. And i think it indicates much more low than ither places. Feel free to think otherwise. Yes, factors that determine objective truths. Well, for Indy's skyline to be written up and laughed at in THE ONION did actually happen, lol! I'm sure you and hundreds of other locals can admit you are proud of being a part of a design community that is happy with anything... because anything is better than a parking lot. And while Marshall keeps thinking, We'll all see how iconic this building actually is once its built. Good luck!!! Wow, I love being subjective with my opinions!!!
          • Marshall & Sassafras
            I guess some of us travel and get out more than others?
          • Oh Boy
            First things first, IBJ, will you please move to Facebook or G+ comments? I think the discussions would be much better if you did. Secondly, this device definitely will add a bit of spice to the Indy skyline. It will be a "wall" only as long as it's the most dominant part of the skyline in that part of the city. Just like JW(which BTW, only gets oohs and aahs from visitors I bring back with me to Indy). We have a skyline that is mocked only because it was a picture from nearly 20 years ago. Our skyline is quietly started to round into shape. It might be better if we can get developers to build large, single structure apartment projects of 10+ stories that aren't "luxury"(and by that I mean closer to $1.25-$1.50/sqft). We don't need tons of 30-40 story towers, just a few good 25-30 story ones and a good amount of 10-25 story infill spread throughout the Mile Square(or the entirety of the Spaghetti Bowl). One last thing. Is there a actual resource for viewing current project going on in Indy? And I mean easily, not the maze that is SSC.
          • Micah...
            So that big building that's visible more than 10 miles from city center along Meridian Street isn't iconic? Hmm...you and I obviously have very different ideas of what "Iconic" means..

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          1. I never thought I'd see the day when a Republican Mayor would lead the charge in attempting to raise every tax we have to pay. Now it's income taxes and property taxes that Ballard wants to increase. And to pay for a pre-K program? Many studies have shown that pre-K offer no long-term educational benefits whatsoever. And Ballard is pitching it as a way of fighting crime? Who is he kidding? It's about government provided day care. It's a shame that we elected a Republican who has turned out to be a huge big spending, big taxing, big borrowing liberal Democrat.

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