Dunkin Donuts and Baskin-Robbins have agreed to take
over the former home of Bonjour Cafe & Bakery at Meridian and 24th streets if the owner wins city approval to add a drive-through.
Travis May of Greenfield-based HSM Development Inc. has asked for the zoning variance for the 1,969-square-foot building at
2402 N. Meridian St., in front of the Library Services Center. New drive-throughs are not allowed for businesses along Meridian
Street, in part to encourage the development of a more urban and pedestrian-friendly corridor. The proposed drive-through
would not even meet the code if it were allowed in the area; the property only has room for five stacking spaces for cars,
less than the required eight. That's why the city's planning staff so far is recommending the request be denied. But
David Kingen, an urban planner who represents the building owner, says the drive-through will be along the building's
western façade, hidden from view of Meridian, and the new tenant will bring life to one of several vacant buildings
in the area. The Dunkin/Baskin concepts also should attract a moderate level of traffic throughout the day, rather than in
one rush, he said. "The notion of no drive-throughs is admirable until you look at all the existing drive-throughs that
aren't going away," said Kingen, who is courting support from neighborhood associations. He said the deal is a no-go
without the drive-through. A hearing is scheduled for July 6. How would you vote?
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Welcome to Property Lines, Indy's source for neighborhood real estate news. Your host is Scott Olson, IBJ's real estate beat
reporter. Edited by Cory Schouten.
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Saw the Indy Men's Chorus "Music of Gilbert & Sullivan" at the Indiana Historical Society on Sunday evening.
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Temporary workers are not "tools" they are people and companies that keep large amounts of temp staff are cheating.
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I miss having them around. I hope one of their stores is in the general Meridian/86th Street area. I will make good use of it.
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The Fringe! Plus, the simple fact that there are so many local faves in such close proximity to each other.
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I remenber, watching the toll road, being built, through South Bend, when I was 10 years old. I believe, back then that it was estimated, that the toll road, would be paid for in 20 years and then it would be free. I am now 71, what happened? Since the power is in the people, by that, I mean that, we the people are in total control of everything. I, suggest that no one ever use the toll road again, let it go broke. We the people can control the price of everything, from groceries to gas, if we would just do it. If we don't pay the asking price, the sellers will lower the price and if we wait awhile, they will lower the price to what we accept as reasonable. I would like to know why a highway like interstate 94, is so well maintained, a much better highway, than the toll road, but has no tolls. I would also like to know why, a sitting governor, with a term limit, maximum of eight years, can lease, public property, for 75 years. Even though I have transponders in both of my trucks and will not be affected by the increase, I have been and will contine to avoid using the toll road. I make many trips from northern Indiana to Chicago, every year, and I prefer the better highway, I94!
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Vote NO.
If it were me, I'd rather fight for a business that wants to serve the people of the neighborhood. Since Dunkin Donuts says this is a no-go with a drive-through, it certainly sounds like they care a lot more about cars than you.
I know the "pedestrian experience" aint much around there these days, but it won't get any better if you set the precedent of giving in to every business that wants to cater to cars.
That is more midtown.
I agree pedestrian friendly is good, and adding a drive through will not make it that much less.
Kingan is stating that putting it on the west side will shield it from the traveling public which I agree is better than the side loads or heaven forbid front loads seen up and down the corridor.
I disagree with Kingan when he says "The notion of no drive-throughs is admirable until you look at all the existing drive-throughs that aren't going away,". If you keep adding them David, then they will never go away. What you do is ban them and eventually they will reduce in number. Doubtful that a 20 year old McDonalds building will still be around. They eventually go away.
Of course that leads to the point that how many quick serve restaurants will actually build without a drive through? How many coffee shops? Ice cream etc...? With an absoulute ban in place, you will free yourself of drive throughs, but also free yourself of services for the community and taxpaying businesses. The density at 24th is not enough for all walk up crowds. Allow drive throughs, but be restrictive on where and how they are allowed. Require the requester to go overboard on installing pedestrian friendly devices.
http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=3510
How long has that coffee shop been empty, and how long will it be until some non drive through dependent business shows up?
2. An ice-cream shop is a neighborhood-serving use, and the neighbors who've responded all have indicated they'll go there. It seems they are saying that they'll put up with the morning drive-thru in order to get the afternoon/evening ice cream shop.
3. This site is about as pedestrian friendly and midtown-urban as they come. The big caveat is that it's damn near impossible to cross Meridian there on foot, something that might be EASIER if a drive-thru caused traffic to slow appreciably.
I just don't think you can say that there can NEVER be cars crossing sidewalks, NO ped-car conflicts on the Meridian Corridor, or that a drive-thru isn't appropriate in that area.
I walk the corridor fairly often at lunchtime and don't find the existing fast-food places to be a significant problem for a pedestrian; I don't expect this to be any different.
pedestrian anyway. I say, let 'em have it.
To the small #, loud few who oppose I hope that you are out numbered by a great many as was the case with another project we fought hard for and is now thriving in the neighborhood it serves. This is something that should be approved; I just hope the city doesn't suck it dry with fees and taxes!!
(There's a gas station/c-store at 25th & College on the east side of FCP and 21st & Capitol to the west. How many more do you think are needed within a mile of your house?)
Our city's flagship street does not deserve to be saturated with chain businesses and/or drive-thrus. I'm not opposed to adding development, but can we at least attempt to create a pedestrian-friendly vibe in Midtown?
People keep asserting "pedestrian-unfriendly" but no one has explained how or why this is so. When it was open before, cars came and went from the corner (but not enough of them to keep the doors open).
People keep asserting that this isn't an appropriate use. What is more appropriate than something that finds a way to serve both commuters and residents with something they all want and will pay for?
Do the perfectionists not understand that business owners look for signals of safety and investment before investing their own money in an area? National brands provide a "seal of approval" for small-business owners.
The 30,000 (speeding) cars that pass this intersection at 40+mph because it's vacant and dead now make the area pedestrian-unfriendly; slower traffic (when there is something people want to go to) will benefit pedestrians.
Le Peeps could have a midtown location and neither of those require a drive through.
http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=3548
Bonjour didn't close because people wouldn't support the business or walk to the building. They closed because they were a bad business.
If people are serious about that becoming a pedestrian hub, its going to take a while of patience and willingness to say no and live with slow-moving change. That street isn't so wide that it couldn't be better in the future. It reminds me of a typical boulevard in LA.
Looking at this more broadly, there's a general pedestrian problem on Capitol/Illinois/Meridian between Fall Creek Blvd. and 22nd. Because the cross-streets are tiny and unaligned, traffic planners don't see the need for traffic lights. That leads to fast moving traffic and nothing to stop the cars and let pedestrians cross safely. It's worst on Meridian because it's two-way and cars don't arrive in one-way waves as on Capitol and Illinois.
That whole area could use some traffic calming measures and a few lights to allow pedestrians to cross safely. It would show everyone that the city is serious about pedestrians and measures like drive-through bans won't sound as frivolous as most seem to think they are.
that would almost be like trying to make an interstate pedestrian friendly, which in its day Meridian was an interstate highway.
In fact, if traffic were to move closer to the posted 35mph limit thru that section, the carrying capacity would be increased. It's counter-intuitive, but high speed increases spacing and decreases "traffic density".
I also disagree with CorrND; more lights don't necessarily calm traffic. What calms traffic is narrower lanes, parking at the curb, and more things to look at and do along the street. That would include an enhanced streetscape.
Folks in the neighborhood all agree that it's far easier to walk across Capitol or Illinois in the 2100-to-Fall Creek area because they are "platooned" one-way streets, which have pavement widths the same or wider than Meridian.
It is no coincidence that the 2400 block of Meridian has such fast-moving traffic; the blank frontage of the Library Services Center distorts (compresses) drivers' view and gives the impression that they are moving slowly even when they are not. The present uninteresting streetscape encourages people to speed up. Putting Dunkin' Donuts at 24th would give people something to slow down for.
On the cheap end of the spectrum, the city could add bump-outs to codify the parking lanes and reduce crossing distance, along with clearly marked crosswalk lines. On the much more expensive end, they could build a landscaped median -- which would require reducing vehicle lane width -- and add a signalized intersection at, most likely, 24th St.
I say buck the zoning and allow the variance... Anything to get that block thriving again.
I also want to let it be known that we did not want to give up so soon. The rent was too high (nobody forced me to accept it and i blame nobody but myself). However, when the economy downturn became so severe, I attempted to negotiate with the landlord a relief or temporary reduction so that we can survive the first couple of years, which are very crucial for any startup business. Instead they decided to evict us because we were late 10 days and they showed up one morning with the lock smith and called the police to kick us out. The female officer that day was a judge, a contract expert and law enforcer in the same time. They confiscated the equipment which were eventually sold at auction by order of the court. After our eviction they attempted to lease it at least to one other tenant as a turn key operations. IT didn't work out because at the lease signing they wanted to increase the already very high rent (according to industry experts). My advise: count your fingers before and after you shake hands with them.
Best of luck for the honest and the sincere.