So long, SoDo

June 30, 2009
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Sodo IndianapolisThe owners of a 1.3-acre parking lot southeast of Meridian and South streets have put the property up for sale, apparently putting an end to the dream of Legends District SoDo. Most real estate observers already had written off what would have been the largest private development in the city's history, but the potential sale of the deal's most important parcel seems to make it official. The $480-million SoDo plan called for condos, as many as three hotels, a theater and 175,000 square feet of retail space just south of downtown. The project was to cover 11 acres that are now home to parking lots, Subway and Arby’s restaurants and the former Chateau Thomas Winery. The lead developer, Ryan Zickler, confirmed the offering but said he didn't have time to discuss the SoDo project this morning. His partners on the project included Tim Shrout, the developer of Heartland Crossing. A post from November 2007 is here.
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  • caliboy28June 30, 2009 11:43 AM
    Didn't have time to discuss the SoDo project? LOL... THAT is the reason projects like this don't come to fruition. This is just another example of someone who fancies themself a real developer and doesn't have a clue. Personally, I thought the project, as ambitious as it may have seemed, lacked any real sparkle to begin with. Three hotels and yet another theatre? Pass...
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  • Hank ReardenJune 30, 2009 12:07 PM
    Maybe the project was not feasible and the owners are cutting their losses...

    Last time I checked developers do things to make money, not please wannabes on message boards.
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  • Rick EJune 30, 2009 12:09 PM
    Three hotel and a theatre...like caliboy28 stated is redundant. The project should have been three apartment towers and specialty shops that are unique to the downtown area and the surrounding areas of the circle. Downtown Indianapolis needs people and lots of it-not above ground parking lots. The more people that live downtown, the business would look to either move or open a new store downtown. All the spectacular buildings in the world doesn't matter at all if no one leaves there or make us of it to full capacity or potential. I think developers need to go back to the basics and create building that inviting and welcoming that is not to say that it shouldn't be creative and unique just that the human aspect of the project is key.
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  • StutzArtistJune 30, 2009 1:10 PM
    So SoDO went the way of the Dodo?

    This one was a long shot from the beginning.
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  • George OrwellJune 30, 2009 2:45 PM
    If you will go back to the original post 11/9/07 you'll find I was not a negative Nancy . As in most of my posts, a realistic Nostradomus. You might also note my prediction of a massive market fall on 6/22 a few days ago. While I'm at it--my 2 year prognostication of the old INB refacing job would come in after the JW Marriot is topped off. I'm right on schedule. You are welcome.
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  • KyleJune 30, 2009 2:56 PM
    While this news doesn't come as a surprise, my first reaction is relief. SODO seemed to be less about improving the city for the people who live there and more about a kind of theme park approach to urbanism, geared toward suburbanites, conventioneers, and tourists. I’m not suggesting those folks should be ignored, just not catered to at every turn. Downtown Indianapolis’ slow-and-steady development used to madden me, but having lived in several boomtowns (Raleigh, NC; Austin, TX) I now have examples of the downside of hasty and ill-conceived growth. Let’s not be afraid to innovate, but let’s know what we consider innovation. The south end of downtown has a rich history and much potential. Here’s hoping that as changes come, we get it right!
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  • Indy RockJune 30, 2009 5:28 PM
    What's the update on the CVS at 16th & Meridian Street?
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  • HarveyFJune 30, 2009 5:36 PM
    This pipe dream isn't going to happen? Shocking.
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  • ianeckJune 30, 2009 8:06 PM
    I'm not too bothered by this. I can only imagine how many prospective developments fail to come to fruition in bigger cities - particularly with the economy where it's at right now. The hope is that only the best and most appropriate actually do come through.

    Some would argue this has been the case in Indy, others (perhaps many others) would not.
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  • dfgJune 30, 2009 9:27 PM
    What is the status of other projects like Ralston Square and the proposed project on Penn. I also saw some work inside the old Quiznos at Ohio/Delaware and the old J Gumbos, any idea on what is going in those places?
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  • parkershadeJune 30, 2009 11:08 PM
    Borrowing from Casablanca, I'm shocked, shocked that this project never made it off the ground. Sounded goofy and grandiose out of the gate, much like that pie-in-the-sky high rise project west of Conseco. I assume that's toast too.

    I'm all for ideas and growth, but I always put the SoDo (gads what a ridiculous moniker) in the same category as the arch over the northwest side of downtown, the Indiana Tower at White River State Park, failed MSA site proposals, and a transportation center at the current post office east of Lucas Oil Stadium.

    For the life of me I don't understand how these dumb*ass ideas get any kind of serious ink or legitimacy.
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  • SassafrasJune 30, 2009 11:34 PM
    Hate to engage in schadenfreude, but I'm glad to see this project gone. Kyle couldn't have put it better--this was a theme park. If it had actually been constructed, it would have died even sooner than Union Station (which generally had Circle Centre to blame). Find something more in keeping with real urbanism to fill this parcel.
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  • BabbageJuly 1, 2009 9:12 AM
    Hmmm...so what large non-subsidized project hasn't failed lately? There have been a couple of small to midsize successful condo projects that are completed and still trying to sell units, but by and large, most of major projects proposed in the last decade have failed. One market square, Penn Centre, SoDo. Like one of the other guys said, I wonder what the fate of Ralston Square is, or that other 20ish storey tower that was proposed between the stadium and Eli Lilly?
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  • thundermuttJuly 1, 2009 9:21 AM
    CVS, 16th & Meridian: curb lane of northbound Meridian is closed, and they're pouring sidewalks and paving parking. Looks on track for opening later this year. Doesn't look like any CVS you've ever seen.

    It's been posted elsewhere that the Ohio/Delaware Quizno's will be a liquor store.

    Anybody know anything about the 22nd & Delaware development?
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  • Indy RockJuly 1, 2009 4:49 PM
    How does the CVS look now? I'm dying (not literally) to see a picture. :)
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  • ianeckJuly 1, 2009 8:15 PM
    I'll bet the new CVS looks just like the new one in Bloomington between Walnut and College north of downtown.

    I haven't been anywhere NEAR that part of Indy, so that's a guess. I'll be surprised, but VERY pleased, if it doesn't.

    Sorry for the post unrelated to SoDo. Maybe with the lack of interesting real estate news in Indy, a post about the new CVS would be welcomed...
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  • ianeckJuly 1, 2009 8:18 PM
    Here's the only picture I could find of the one in B-town. Am I right?

    http://www.cacard.indiana.edu/cacard/cvs.asp

    (yes I know, I did it again. Shame about SoDo.)
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  • SassafrasJuly 2, 2009 1:56 PM
    Is it true that the Ohio/Delaware Quizno's is going to be a liquor store? How disheartening. Only a block away from Wheeler Mission. Speaking as someone who volunteers at Wheeler, you'd think the liquor store manager deliberate sought this spot because of a built-in market.
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  1. liek the rest of America

  2. These quaint,obsessed musings by the stalkers are certainly entertaining, but I'm trying to figure out what, if anything, all the yelping below has to do with Zak Brown.

  3. It's evident that Moffett was pushing the right buttons and corporate America is now trying to squash him. He just wanted to withdraw the free pilot services provided to the company by the pilots to try and put some pressure on a company that has not been interested in negotiating a contract in over 5 years. The company does not provide a contract because not having one has saved them a bundle of money. Shame on any Republic pilots not standing behind their union leader just because things are getting tough, can you not see such strategic moves by the company as putting the last union president in a corporate position and into THEIR pocket. Do you really believe the last union president is so appalled at the attempts by Moffett, do you not remember his oppositions to the company? We stood behind him. It has been proven over and over again for thousands of years without fail, a man cannot serve two masters. Anyone that believes people vote contrary to their paycheck and livelihood deserve to be taken advantage of, the recent statements by the former union president are laughable as he denounces the current union president from his new corporate position. Have you ever seen a drafted sports player score points for his previous team, it cannot be done, he is not on the pilots side anymore, he gets his money a different way now than you and I do, and he should not be allowed to remain on the seniority list. A drafted player brings strength, credibility, tactical knowledge, and a strategic advantage to his NEW team, he would not be drafted or paid were it otherwise. We are all forced to choose only one side to play for and support, not doing so has many references in life such as insider trading and shaving points, all illegal for good reason. This basic fact is why corporate moguls, scientist, and engineers all sign non-discloser agreements and non-compete clauses, as protection in case they are lured into switching sides as our former union president has done. No NFL coach ever drafted a player so that both teams could benefit and better understand each other, they are recruited to win the game against that former team, period. Likewise the company does not recruit the former union president by accident or mutual understanding, its strategy. Don't confuse playing the game with good sportsman-like conduct in support of common business and prosperity goals, with the requirement to only play for one side. Good men we all love and favor fall subject to this manipulation, often without their knowledge, and it is not a betrayal of their friendship to oppose them when they switch sides. If we did not love and trust them, they would not have been chosen and lured to the other side in the first place. The deception by the drafted player is not made at a conscious level, it's just human nature and it's all about money and power which corrupts our ability to be objective and loyal to two masters. This is why our court system created the defense attorney, and why our military created counter intelligence. Its strategy and its propaganda, and it works, and that's why the "powers to be" manipulate the chess pieces by sometimes changing their colors. Some players know they are being manipulated when their color is changed, but it brings them more money and power so they do not care. The rest have good intentions but do not even realize they are being manipulated. This tactic is also known by another name, Divide and Conquer. In battle sending an imperfect message with an imperfect team is obviously not ideal, but it's still being sent by YOUR team, your union leader, a leader that has common goals and common rewards with you, they are the best, because we have elected them to do a job for us. If you are not backing Moffett but believing the spin by those that have recently switched sides, you are taking food out of your own mouth. Showing unity and backing an imperfect situation still results in taking just as much ground, it's about unity and bargaining power. It's not necessary to wait around for that perfect attack because it will never come, the company will spin and attempt to destroy anyone that gets in their way. Ultimately it's not about any specific attack anyway, ASAP or whatever it makes no difference, it is and always has been only about power. If this company cared about safety it would not build pairings with 8 hour overnights, come on, are you that naive? Besides, do you really think Hoffa cares, no, he got a call from corporate America and was squeezed into denouncing Moffett. If he didn't they would spin the safety card against him and the Teamsters National with implication for truckers, future contracts, insurance rates etc...saying something like the Teamsters use safety as a bargaining chip, blah blah blah... Do you really think any pilot is going to do something unsafe for the contract, absolutely not, the only ones threatening safety here is the company with reduced rest, fatigue, and poverty. Do you not find it odd that Hoffa and the Teamsters are opposing a Teamster president publicly? Would the Teamsters National not normally support and work with one of their own? Why did they not sit down and help him strategize, correct any mistakes, and charge ahead? Would the Teamsters National not normally support and leverage a contract for all those pilots that have been paying Teamster dues, isn't that why we have all been paying Teamster dues in the first place? I sure haven't been paying dues so that the Teamsters National could come along and write this kind of an article undercutting our union leader and our unity. Whose side is the Teamsters National really on, it's obviously not the Republic pilots side.

  4. No matter what Moffatt does the company is going to spin it like he is the terrorist and brainwash people like you into believing it, wake up, back your players that are trying to change things for you and your livelihood. Where has Hoffa been for the last 6 years, except collecting our dues. Seriously, do you really think an FO going for upgrade, signed off by a checkairman ready for the upgrade, who then fails, is not even capable of returning as a First Officer.

  5. whoa!

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