Venu taking 'green' to new level

September 21, 2007
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Venu RenderingCheck out this new rendering of Venu from locally based Premier Properties USA Inc. The company plans to build the 2.3-million square foot project at the southwest corner of 86th and Keystone. The company says Venu will be the "largest LEED certified 'green' project of its kind in North America." Notice all the green roofs in the rendering. Oh, and the palm trees at lower right. (The project is being designed by Los Angeles-based The Jerde Partnership.) Plans call for an office tower, hotel, condos, a 5,000-seat theater and dozens of restaurants and retailers. Premier says it hopes to open the $750-million project in Summer 2009.
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  • liberty bellSeptember 21, 2007 9:10 AM
    Palm trees?! Something tells me this rendering might have been tweaked from a project originally (or simultaneously) proposed for another location, like California?

    I kid, I kid....I'm hoping this project happens, in as green an iteration as possible.
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  • TonySeptember 21, 2007 9:19 AM
    Wow what a great project this is going to be. Exciting to see something of this magnitude going up in Indy.
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  • SouthsiderSeptember 21, 2007 9:23 AM
    I've thought for some time that a good location for something this could be the property for sale bordered by Emerson Avenue, I-465, and Thompson Road. The property is easily accessible via I-465, only a couple miles east of I-65, somewhat wooded, and is bordered by both residential and commercial properties. Just a thought. Anyway, I'm happy to see green in Indy.
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  • Erich R. H. (indiexinxindy)September 21, 2007 9:25 AM
    IF this Venu happens i will be thrilled! Indy NEEDS something green like this! Best of luck to these developers. As i for one think this project can be really, REALLY successful!
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  • NickSeptember 21, 2007 9:27 AM
    I love the concept of this, and it only gets better and better.

    I would say my one problem with it is the theater. With the Murat, Clowes, and Venu, something is going to have to give here. Specifically, they say that the theater will be designed for Broadway style shows, and even with the Broadway Series operating at Murat and Clowes, they can barely attract the big shows here until they are a few years old. So, I would like to know how they plan on making the theater viable. With the larger capacity, I could really see them eating into the Murat, especially with all the northsiders that think downtown is a shoot out at the OK Corral. Okay, just rambling now, but I am intrigued by the shakeout that is coming.
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  • Erich R. H. (indiexinxindy)September 21, 2007 10:01 AM
    http://www.ppusa.com/properties/view/woodfield

    This is pretty amazing if you ask me!
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  • Indiana JonesSeptember 21, 2007 11:05 AM
    The palm trees look -- appropriately -- brown in the rendering already!
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  • berwickguySeptember 21, 2007 11:14 AM
    Nick talks about the competetion downtown in regard to theatres. Don't overlook Carmel's project for their performing arts center. This will be one more site to throw into the mix.
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  • KevinSeptember 21, 2007 11:33 AM
    If it is truly a green project, it is safe to assume the project will include only native plantings, therefore no palm trees. This is a great project and i hope Premier can pull this off.
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  • LarrySeptember 21, 2007 11:51 AM
    About Broadway shows this theatre would be approx. twice the size of either Clowes or the Murat....It would make it financially viable to bring the new MORE expensive shows to the area.
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  • ryanSeptember 21, 2007 12:02 PM
    awesome! just awesome that indy could actually be on the cutting edge of something for once. the largest leed project of it's kind in north america?? awesome. it's just extra excitement thrown on to an already exciting project. looking very forward to this and truly hope they can pull it off. we should be happy that we have premier properties active in our city!
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  • Erich R. H.September 21, 2007 12:18 PM
    http://www.smartgrowth.org/news/article.asp?art=6187&State=15&res=1024

    A very informative & intriguing article!
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  • Other NickSeptember 21, 2007 12:24 PM
    Great to see such a large LEED project. To think my sales people laughed when I told them that LEED buildings were going to become a bigger deal in Indy....
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  • bryanSeptember 21, 2007 12:26 PM
    awesome. love it. my only quetion is, when this was first announced it was priced @ 175 million, then 350 million and now 750 million. are they adding more to this project?
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  • cschoutenSeptember 21, 2007 12:54 PM
    I haven't heard another price. My most recent post on Venu, in August, said $750 million.
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  • bryanSeptember 21, 2007 1:36 PM
    I first read about this project in the Star, I think that's how i came up with those numbers. has this project been approved yet?
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  • cschoutenSeptember 21, 2007 1:51 PM
    Bryan: No, it hasn't been approved.
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  • ShaneSeptember 21, 2007 2:28 PM
    I've heard the biggest reason Indianapolis doesn't attract the newer Broadway shows is due to the size of our venues (small for a city out size). With this larger venue we would be able to attract newer and as a newer post suggested, more expensive shows.
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  • ablerockSeptember 21, 2007 3:33 PM
    I'm very disappointed this developer didn't propose this for MSA. I can't really support support it wholeheartedly because it's increasing the divide between Downtown and the North Side as the center of life and business for Indianapolis. Supposedly, people live in the suburbs because they don't like the hustle and bustle of urbanity. This development is building a pop-up city that will set off a sprawl bomb with a huge ripple effect. It will push the North Side farther out, as people flee the congestion and poor development patterns that have plagued that area for years.

    We already have one downtown. Let's keep the urban development focus there, and let the suburbs be suburban.
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  • Other NickSeptember 21, 2007 4:06 PM
    I don't think there is any doubt that downtown needs continued development and focus. And, we've come a long way in a relatively short period of time. But this project is nothing more than a faux urban theme. It's like eating what you want, and never gaining weight. Society wants places that mimic all the things they want (urban, city life) without all the bad they don't want (use your own imagination!). I don't think it will spark a ripple effect and cause the demise of downtown. Downtown is strong and will get stronger.
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  • CDC GuySeptember 21, 2007 5:09 PM
    Amen, ablerock.
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  • Erich R. H. (indiexinxindy)September 21, 2007 7:30 PM
    I beg to differ with you once again my friend AbleRock. Just imagine this being built in Carmel or Fishers or Plainfield or whatever. It could've easily been done. Would you rather have all the tax revenues be sucked right out of Indianapolis to these places? Sure, this would've been nice downtown but downtown cant have everything! I am really, REALLY happy they are building this amazing project where it is! Besides, it's a smart reuse of land! For, they are essentially building on crappy parking lots.

    Great job to Premier Properties for this amazing project! And thank you for keeping it IN Indianapolis (even if it isn't downtown) GO LEED!
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  • dwirthSeptember 21, 2007 9:04 PM
    Shane - the reason Indy doesn't get the best touring Broadway shows first has little to do with the size of the Murat or Clowes. It has everything to do with the fact that some other cities have much more established cultural scenes --- and have proven that they will attract big crowds for the touring shows in a way Indy has not. Other Midwestern cities like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, etc... have serious subscription bases of 15,000-20,000 annual subscribers each - and, the last time I heard, Indy had something like 5,000 or 6,000.. - which means customers aren't going at levels they are in other cities. Cleveland and Cincy have enough subscribers to almost sell out a show completely for a one-week run in a 2,800 seat house - so all shows stay a minimum of two weeks - some 3 or more... Indy has trouble drawing a modest crowd for a one week run. Cleveland and Cincy will both have repeat visits (3-4 weeks each) of the huge Broadway hit WICKED in the coming months before Indy will have the show for the first time. Cleveland is often the first stop on the national tour for some shows --- and, like the recent Drowsy Chaperone tour, a number of shows have actuallyrehearsed the show at their 7 theater downtown complex prior to the tour launch. So -- it's more than theater size -- and, unfortunately, a 5,000 seat house is huge and would be a terrible place to see a show... but better for concerts...For anything other than a WICKED type Broadway hit, it would be perhaps 1/4 - 1/3 full at most for most shows... not what the cast would like to see.
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  • dwirthSeptember 21, 2007 9:07 PM
    Venu seems so very ambitious... If it's pulled off, it will be great, right? However, with the Fashion Mall and Castleton Square and Clay Terrace and Carmel City Center all within a 5-10 minute drive - and with Indy's population at a modest 1.6 million (despite good growth) - what retailers and restaurants are left to go into this development? Again, VERY ambitious - perhaps a bit too much..
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  • Erich R. H. (indiexinxindy)September 22, 2007 10:16 AM
    ^Can you say troll?^ I wouldn't say it's a bit much at all... Trust me, these people know a helluva lot more than you do when it comes to researching where to build! So when they selected Woodfield to redevelop they knew what they were talking about!
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  • dwirthSeptember 22, 2007 4:36 PM
    Erich - Troll? Because I stated my opinion - like everyone else on this board? Also - as you haven't a clue who, what or where I am --- so stating these people know a helluva lot more than you do about development could be wildly off the mark...

    Anyway.... I never said the Venu location wasn't a good location on which to build --- it's a prime location by any standard. But WHAT it will end up being, we'll have to see. The country is littered with retail white elephants built on sites that developers thought were perfect.... from Miami to Phoenix to Cincinnati to Chicago.... Sometimes the mix of stores was wrong... or access to the site was difficult, etc... - and developers learn the hard way that it's not as easy as selecting the site and building... If Venu is shooting for upscale stores/restaurants - the pickings of stores not already located nearby will be slim.
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  • DMSeptember 22, 2007 9:11 PM
    Erich: What are you like 5 years old? Anyone you disagree with is a troll
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  • Erich R. H. (indiexinxindy)September 22, 2007 10:55 PM
    That doesn't make any sense... I can easily disagree with someone. I just don't really like people whom think they are experts when they really are not... Perhaps this guy is, but why hasn't he posted on any other topics that have come up? I just find it rather odd. That's all... Peace.
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  • CoryWSeptember 24, 2007 11:27 AM
    I LOVE THIS PROJECT! Yes, this would have been great for downtown at the MSA site, but there is more to the metro than just downtown and not everyone goes downtown. We need to get density ouotside of Center Township and this will do that!


    AWESOME about the LEED.
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  • IndyGuySeptember 24, 2007 9:03 PM
    Erich, please grow up. You've already ruined the Indianapolis discussion on another message board. Please dont ruin this one. Thanks.
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  • dwirthSeptember 24, 2007 11:25 PM
    Erich --- Im a first time poster... Simple as that. That's why you haven't seen my posts prior to now. I've lurked for a short time on board - but finally felt it was time to add... I think you'll see more from me.
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  • SaraSeptember 24, 2007 11:45 PM
    It would be nice if a project of this magnitude were built in downtown instead, but its still nice to have dense development anywhere in this area. And to the rude poster a few posts back, who are you to decide who can post or not? Must someone reach a certain post count before having the priviledge to post in the same thread as you?
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  • KentSeptember 25, 2007 10:14 AM
    Hey all you guys, and I assume girls, all your comments are good, and this PPUSA Chris White project is fantastic!! The Simon Fashion Mall at Keystone @ the Crossing is the hottest retail-shopping zone in the STATE!!...So It all makes sense to do it here, they will all be competing, but it's all clustered, and competition makes them all try harder...we will see all 4 corners at Keystone and 86th become an even hotter spot. Market Square was not allowed to become a free market venue, the original masterplanners saw to that!
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  • SOSSeptember 25, 2007 9:56 PM
    Developers never overbuild or miscalculate the marketplace.
    Developers are infallible.
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  • cityfanSeptember 26, 2007 12:36 PM
    Dwirth - I think this project is just right. It will compliment the Fashion Mall perfectly. As for competition from Castleton, and Clay Terrace, those two locations are really not a 5-10 minute drive when you factor in traffic. Clay Terrace is probably more like 25 minutes.

    However, I don't think this project is intended to go head to head with other malls in the area. It's mainly office, residential and hotel space. It sounds like the retail space will be filled up mostly by restaurants and stores to service the residences. I doubt the developers will be trying to get stores like the Gap, Banana Republic, Bed Bath Beyond when they are already nearby.

    Thus, I don't think this project is too ambitious at all. It's offering something completely different.
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  • cityfanSeptember 26, 2007 12:42 PM
    As for the 5,000 seat theatre, I don't know why everyone keeps focusing on travelling Broadway shows as if it is the only thing this theatre could accomodate. Granted, I don't know the design of the theatre, but if they're smart it will be a versatile venue just like the Murat. Indy could certainly use another mid-sized concert venue for modern live bands. Presently, the Murat is really the only theatre in the city that can accomodate live theatre and popular concerts (Clowes very rarely has rock/pop concerts).

    I think this theatre could be a great opportunity to fill a void in Indy's music scene and help the city attract more touring bands that skip the city due to the lack of an appropriately sized or already booked venue.

    Stop worrying about the Broadway shows.
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  • CrossedWiresSeptember 28, 2007 10:15 AM
    I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what national retailers will locate in this project that are not in Simon Malls in other states. I believe there are a number of national up market retailers that refuse to deal with Simon, and this will give them an opportunity to locate in our market. As for the theatre, follow the demographics. The sheds are dead, the baby boomers want more intimate theatre style concerts. Its well known that a number of 5-7,000 seat shows pass here due to no venue to host them that’s not limited to summer outside seating. I hope this project gets completed. I for one feel Simon and Clear Channel need the competition in this city, in order for them to bring us better product as well.
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