Your vision for Lucasville?

November 26, 2007
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Lucas Oil StadiumThe host of Property Lines, Cory Schouten, is on vacation this week. Meanwhile, the blog will feature discussion questions about Indianapolis real estate. Today's topic is the area surrounding Lucas Oil Stadium. It has become a virtual Wild West, as one blog reader said recently. The area is home to several development proposals, including the giant Legends District-SoDo project, along with Merrill Street Tower. What's your vision for the area? Can the stadium truly "extend" downtown? Look for new topics on Wednesday and Friday. Live posting resumes Dec. 3.
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  • Of course it can. Columbus OH, KC, LA and many other cities have developed
    entire districts around new stadiums.
  • Let's hope this becomes a stimulant to more creative development.
  • Anyone who really considers downtown to only be within NSEW streets is a bit close minded to begin with. (Yes, I know it was Ralston's plan) Downtown has already extended past these boundaries and hopefully more development keeps happening to make it more legit.
  • Looks like it's already happening. There's clearly going to be a lot of development south of the tracks.
  • I'd love to see the mega blocks surrounding the stadium broken up into smaller more intimate ones. Unique architecture from block to block and builing to buiding would be great as well. Some high density development is always needed downtown, but I think that some areas surrounding the stadium in the style of Mass Ave. would be more attainable and welcoming. Any news on the Merril Street Building or Rawlston Square? How about Penn Center?
  • No, I think the bigger developments like SODO are exactly what is needed on that side of downtown. This is an area where historic preservation is not much of an issue, and it is the perfect opportunity to break out of the rut that (deservedly) preserving architectural and atmosphere has put us. A blockbuster development like SODO is a case in point. Yes, it has the morbid condo curiosity, but its mixture of entertainment, restaurants and big box retail is exactly what is needed to attract people to that part of town. We can all sit and kid ourselves that we need boutique stores and farmers markets, but the fact of the matter is a Target and the like is what a downtown resident (me being one) is most likely to leave downtown to visit. Adding this sort of retail to a development in an urban setting (no acres of parking), will gurantee that Lucasville is not just a destination during Colts games.
  • I would love to see an real night life area pop up. It seems like the only places to go downtown are nicer restaurants or dive bars. There is very little in-between.
  • Nick, I agree with you, Sodo is a great proposal. It is self contained, but it has a street presence once inside. The massive Post Office is a prime example of a mega block that stymies any foot traffic whatsoever. The stadium itself is a rather massive mega block that may not show many signs of life unless there is an event. I've got no problem with Target, as long as it doesn't look like a suburban store with lots of parking. Sodo has underground parking, so once again, I think it's ideal. My point is that I'd like to see something along the lines of the narrow Mass Ave. as opposed to six lane one way streets that aren't pedestrian friendly.
  • Great question Cory!! Obviously, we are seeing developmnet pop up around The Luke. However, the designs we are seeing are much less than favorable. The two hotels that are currently U/C to the west are a fine example of what should NOT be built in the Mile Square (or it's surrounding Regional Center). Those are suburban, interstate hotels with EIFS and stucco. Not something that is common in the downtown. It's not the planner who are to blame eitehr, rather, the people above them that allow developers and such to cry to anyone that will listen in hopes of getting their way.

    I am very pleased with the SoDo proposal and I really hope it comes to fruition. Imagine that area if/when it is built!

    I hope that the Popst Office is able to move so that the City can push forward with developing a transit hub on that site. Cory, do you have any info on this that you could share?
  • If the neighborhood actually becomes known as Lucasville due to the naming rights winner of the stadium I will completely give up hope for downtown.

    Please someone correct me in my assumption that this is from whence the nickname derives?
  • Lucasville? Pathetic name for a section of downtown. How about Touchdown District? *burp*
  • What's wrong with the name Lucasville being used to describe an area of downtown? Ever hear of a place called Wrigleyville? I like it, and I hope it sticks...

    BTW, Dustin, have you officially gained your troll status on these boards?
  • Marshall, my opinion (as a 2.5 year resident) is that Indy is too corporate, chain driven, and uninterested in exploring/exploiting what is unique about it as a city. Naming a district of downtown after a company would, IMO, prove that concern.

    Granted, focus-grouped, committee-selected names for districts usually sound like nothing more than marketing and rarely stick. It would be good, IMO, if a name that related to the district's history or physical attributes blossomed naturally via usage on the street.

    And what happens when Lucas Oil merges with Mobil/Exxon/Dubai Ports/Starbucks? Does Lucasville stick? Or does the district get renamed?
  • Marshall, I understand your need to point out that I'm a troll on here. Apparently your point of thought about the Lucasville name and comparing it to Wrigleyville only proves one thing about you; BORING. You must be a very boring individual who does not seek outside of the box thinking in terms of establishing unique characteristics of a downtown area. As for liberty's post, he/she explained my original post more specifically. Surely you might want to reread liberty's post over and over again Marshall. I wouldn't want you to forget or misread a WORD considering how dense you might be. Have a good day!
  • My ONLY point is that is a very unofficial nickname, and nothing more. Development in the area has / will have very little to do with the nick. Dustin, it amazes me that you are able to deduce so much about my personality and intelligence from a 4 sentence post.

    Thank you for the more reasonable response, liberty bell.... I can appreciate your viewpoint!
  • The area just south of LOS already has an historic name: Irish Hills.
  • Are there seriously ANY hills south of there? o_O
  • Marshall, I'm happy to know you feel better and understand :)
  • Hopefully we can get an ESPNZone to come to Lucasville!
  • I would LOVE for Indy to get an ESPN Zone. I can't figure out why we haven't gotten one yet. Hell, even lesser known cities without pro teams are slated to get one (Louisville).
  • The area immediately south of LOS is called Babe Denney. Irish Hills is immediately east of downtown.
  • I would also love to see a Cheesecake Factory there. Hopefully one day downtown can get one!
  • I would like to see the few historic structures and the few historic homes near it restored and re-used. I love the current proposals in the area. A mix of highrises to low rises/high density would be great. I think use of brick and stone would be great for this area.
  • Technically the area east of downtown is Irish Hill, singular. Named because prior to the interstates, it was a pronounced hill overlooking downtown that was heavy with Irish immigrants.
  • LOS is so out of scale to downton Indy it looks awful!

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  1. liek the rest of America

  2. These quaint,obsessed musings by the stalkers are certainly entertaining, but I'm trying to figure out what, if anything, all the yelping below has to do with Zak Brown.

  3. It's evident that Moffett was pushing the right buttons and corporate America is now trying to squash him. He just wanted to withdraw the free pilot services provided to the company by the pilots to try and put some pressure on a company that has not been interested in negotiating a contract in over 5 years. The company does not provide a contract because not having one has saved them a bundle of money. Shame on any Republic pilots not standing behind their union leader just because things are getting tough, can you not see such strategic moves by the company as putting the last union president in a corporate position and into THEIR pocket. Do you really believe the last union president is so appalled at the attempts by Moffett, do you not remember his oppositions to the company? We stood behind him. It has been proven over and over again for thousands of years without fail, a man cannot serve two masters. Anyone that believes people vote contrary to their paycheck and livelihood deserve to be taken advantage of, the recent statements by the former union president are laughable as he denounces the current union president from his new corporate position. Have you ever seen a drafted sports player score points for his previous team, it cannot be done, he is not on the pilots side anymore, he gets his money a different way now than you and I do, and he should not be allowed to remain on the seniority list. A drafted player brings strength, credibility, tactical knowledge, and a strategic advantage to his NEW team, he would not be drafted or paid were it otherwise. We are all forced to choose only one side to play for and support, not doing so has many references in life such as insider trading and shaving points, all illegal for good reason. This basic fact is why corporate moguls, scientist, and engineers all sign non-discloser agreements and non-compete clauses, as protection in case they are lured into switching sides as our former union president has done. No NFL coach ever drafted a player so that both teams could benefit and better understand each other, they are recruited to win the game against that former team, period. Likewise the company does not recruit the former union president by accident or mutual understanding, its strategy. Don't confuse playing the game with good sportsman-like conduct in support of common business and prosperity goals, with the requirement to only play for one side. Good men we all love and favor fall subject to this manipulation, often without their knowledge, and it is not a betrayal of their friendship to oppose them when they switch sides. If we did not love and trust them, they would not have been chosen and lured to the other side in the first place. The deception by the drafted player is not made at a conscious level, it's just human nature and it's all about money and power which corrupts our ability to be objective and loyal to two masters. This is why our court system created the defense attorney, and why our military created counter intelligence. Its strategy and its propaganda, and it works, and that's why the "powers to be" manipulate the chess pieces by sometimes changing their colors. Some players know they are being manipulated when their color is changed, but it brings them more money and power so they do not care. The rest have good intentions but do not even realize they are being manipulated. This tactic is also known by another name, Divide and Conquer. In battle sending an imperfect message with an imperfect team is obviously not ideal, but it's still being sent by YOUR team, your union leader, a leader that has common goals and common rewards with you, they are the best, because we have elected them to do a job for us. If you are not backing Moffett but believing the spin by those that have recently switched sides, you are taking food out of your own mouth. Showing unity and backing an imperfect situation still results in taking just as much ground, it's about unity and bargaining power. It's not necessary to wait around for that perfect attack because it will never come, the company will spin and attempt to destroy anyone that gets in their way. Ultimately it's not about any specific attack anyway, ASAP or whatever it makes no difference, it is and always has been only about power. If this company cared about safety it would not build pairings with 8 hour overnights, come on, are you that naive? Besides, do you really think Hoffa cares, no, he got a call from corporate America and was squeezed into denouncing Moffett. If he didn't they would spin the safety card against him and the Teamsters National with implication for truckers, future contracts, insurance rates etc...saying something like the Teamsters use safety as a bargaining chip, blah blah blah... Do you really think any pilot is going to do something unsafe for the contract, absolutely not, the only ones threatening safety here is the company with reduced rest, fatigue, and poverty. Do you not find it odd that Hoffa and the Teamsters are opposing a Teamster president publicly? Would the Teamsters National not normally support and work with one of their own? Why did they not sit down and help him strategize, correct any mistakes, and charge ahead? Would the Teamsters National not normally support and leverage a contract for all those pilots that have been paying Teamster dues, isn't that why we have all been paying Teamster dues in the first place? I sure haven't been paying dues so that the Teamsters National could come along and write this kind of an article undercutting our union leader and our unity. Whose side is the Teamsters National really on, it's obviously not the Republic pilots side.

  4. No matter what Moffatt does the company is going to spin it like he is the terrorist and brainwash people like you into believing it, wake up, back your players that are trying to change things for you and your livelihood. Where has Hoffa been for the last 6 years, except collecting our dues. Seriously, do you really think an FO going for upgrade, signed off by a checkairman ready for the upgrade, who then fails, is not even capable of returning as a First Officer.

  5. whoa!

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