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Just add these to the two giant apartment developments at 96th & Westfield Blvd. These will cause more of a traffic nightmare going into Broad Ripple.
Go to work at 7am and get off 3pm. Solved your traffic problem.
7-3 may not be good working hours for lots of people. Pretty rude to tell everyone else to make their lives conform,, no matter how well that might work for them, to the hours dictated by a substantial development in an area not suitable for such a development.
How exactly will apartments at 96th and Westfield have a significant impact on Broad Ripple? No one in their right mind would use Westfield to go any farther south than 86th before cutting over to Keystone or College.
It’s already a traffic nightmare… what difference is this redevelopment really going to make?
What bad faith arguments these people are making. It’s going to get built. Deal with it.
Correct!
Actually…that’s highly doubtful. Hart’s public statements here do not reflect good-faith discussions.
The neighbors filed suit on the last possible day to preserve their legal rights, should the CCC not vote to reject this proposal. Which will likely happen.
It was never a good proposal. Should’ve never seen the light of day. Counting the lake in density calculations, for Spirit Lake and the new project, is double-dipping.
Probably 15-16 votes on the council to reject this rezoning. Which is a drastic rezoning–it involves breaking commitments as well as variances well beyond normal scope.
Gosh, a few more apartments. How does an actual city deal with it? Oh right, by not relying solely on cars for transit.
But these zoning lawsuits are ridiculous. Zoning is a scam – why should the absolute worst people on earth (your neighbors) get to tell you what you can build?
Except that’s not how zoning works. That’s how the flawed, and typically under qualified, Board and Commission members work. There is a legal framework that is all but ignored in Marion County when it comes to land use.
Murray R, how many boards are you on? The people who serve on City boards are volunteers; they get paid nothing.
Robert, what does that have anything to do with what I said? Seriously. Think about that for more than two seconds. Service on boards and commissions isn’t compulsory, and if you can’t exercise the duty in alignment with enabling legislation, why accept?
Broad Ripple is no longer a village. Too many apartment buildings and high rise buildings. It’s totally lost its charm. Fortunately, I live in SoBro, far enough south to not be directly affected by the sprawling development and the road construction. But I totally understand why the neighbors and the Councilpersons are opposed to this project. Enough already!
There are villages all over the world with a higher population density than Broad Ripple.
Broad Ripple loses it’s charm every time gunfire erupts on a Saturday night. The solution to the sad row of waning bars occupying Broad Ripple Avenue is livable, walkable density to bring residents and sustainable businesses to the village.
Disappointing there are so many cavalier statements being made. Before you think increasing Westfield Boulevard traffic is not an issue, live there. We have dealt with so much construction along Westfield and Broad Ripple Avenue over the last couple of years it is getting pretty tiresome to keep finding new ways to get places.
That sucks. This isn’t a road project.
Funny how everyone complains about the roads but when there is a project to improve them people complain. Broad Ripple wanted all of the recent improvements so it should be grateful it is actually getting public investment while other neighborhoods wait.
They’re all road projects at the end of the day…it’s all infrastructure. Build new apartments, you’ll likely need new roads at some point to support the additional traffic. Have lousy roads, and people don’t want to move to your part of town. Businesses die off, schools deterioorate, housing stock deteriorates.
Why can my neighbors have a voice on what you build? Because your project may destroy the value of their property. What gives you the right to diminish the value of their property?
Alternative public transport? Probably not viable for this area. Other than buses.
Probably some people didn’t want Oxbow or Spirit Lake built at the time, either…..
Actually, the developers worked with neighbors worked with neighbors for two years to find reasonable accommodations. Including density. And counting the lake area once, for density calculations.
Those accommodations become commitments. Which are recorded. Now, this new developer seeks to amend or change the zoning contrary to some (not all) of those commitments. The new councilperson doesn’t have the same knee-jerk developer bent that the former councilperson had.
This project is not particularly more dense than most of the newer 4-5 story apartment projects with garage space underneath. Apartment projects don’t create the traffic problems that commercial projects do because people don’t all leave and return at the same time. The flexible work schedules that many companies allow have improved this greatly.
Unfortunately the city desperately needs to create density in order to increase the tax base. I’m sure that many of the neighbors understand this but it’s just a case of NIMBY!
+1 That’s all this has ever been about. I lived in BRip for 5 years. The traffic argument is a joke.
Where the City creates density by multi-family construction can change neighborhoods and property values. Build a large development at Keystone and 62nd, say where Hedlunds and the car wash and that little strip mall are (which I’m not advocating, there is no place like Hedlunds) and traffic density is less an issue than on Westfield Boulevard, which was never intended to handle lots of traffic. Is it NIMBY? Yes, but with a real issue…traffic patterns and overuse. Westfield was laid out to be a local connector between Broad Ripple, Nora, and Carmel. It was never intended to handle a lot of traffic. The curves just north of BRV, south this development, were a right of passage for teenage boys with dad’s car…our own Dead Man’s Curve. Now people want to make it a major route.
The developers of this project are the same family that owned the lakes, and added the pavillion over local objections, then added the condos. The folks who owned the houses on the small private road to the north of the lake protested but were placated. Now, the family is hoping all forgot about their promises. If this is built, the traffic will become such a mess it will drop the local property values.
I’m not privy to their traffic study, but I don’t believe that 200 apartments will create a significant change to the traffic. It would be ideal if the project had a second means of egress and the southern most building was a story shorter being adjacent to the Oxbow project.
200 apartments is probably 300-400 cars a day entering and exiting in one area along a 2 lane road just north of some blind curves.
So if my estimate of total cars is correct, and it’s just a guess that 200 apartments will have at least two adults of driving age, and most will have multiple cars per apartment (because, again, Indy doesn’t do mass/public transit) if you average that traffic through a day, using one driveway, for a 16 hour day (7am to 11pm) its between 18 and 25 cars per hour, depending on the total cars. Roughly a car every 2.5 to 3.5 minutes. If you shorten the day to 7am to 9pm, the number jumps to 21-28 cars per hour. That assumes a regular flow of traffic with no two cars wanting to enter or leave at the same time. At peak hours, morning and evening rush, this combination of cars from the project plus traffic on the road already, including the condo project across the street, will likely make a mess of Westfield Boulevard.
Agree. The blind curve is a problem as folks come around their pretty fast. A number of years ago I got hit head on as I was waiting to enter Oxbow.
Why can’t they just build Condo’s? Is it a TIF money thing?
Two traffic studies were done. The neighbors didn’t like the results of the developer’s study so did their own which then yielded results even worse for their argument. Per traffic study metrics, this project is not even close to a traffic issue.
Further, instead of arbitrarily stating how dangerous the road is, DPW considers it a safe thoroughfare with only 2 (maybe it was 3) accidents in the last several years.
The traffic and safety arguments are not valid.
Lastly, JC Hart does not build condos. They are apartments developers and owners. Chick FIL A does not sell hamburgers.