Next IndyGo rapid lines move toward reality

19 thoughts on “Next IndyGo rapid lines move toward reality”

1. “We can’t predict the future…” Actually, Mr. Brown, we predict the future all the time. Your next section talks about projections about future use. That’s a PREDICTION.

   76,000 riders in a month is 208 riders a day on the Red Line. That seems to be a pathetic performance given how much we’ve spent on the Red Line and the congestion caused by taking travel lanes out of use for dedicated Red Line buses. To say the performance of the Red Line has been underwhelming is an understatement. Most of the very large Red Line buses usually have just a handful of passengers riding them. The “Build it and They Will Come” theory of mass transit has never worked anyplace so it’s not surprising it hasn’t worked in Indianapolis.

   The need for large heavy buses to transport throngs of passengers to their jobs and shopping malls has long past. Many people work from home. People shop online. Instead of building a mass transit system to meet the needs of the future, city officials simply assumed future transportation needs would resemble those of the past. They guessed wrong. So what are city officials doing? Instead of doing some honest re-evaluation and making adjustments, they’re doubling down on their mistake by expanding a failed and highly expensive rapid bus system. Brilliant.

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2. Sorry for the really bad math. Not sure how I screwed up the calculation. Anyway, 76,000 divided by 30 is 2,533 a day. Still most of the buses are operating at only a fraction of capacity. There is no reason for those big heavy buses when much smaller buses would suffice.

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   1. Mass transit is a wise investment for the future of Indianapolis. Improving it is long overdue. Indy is routinely passed over from outside business investment because of our ridiculously poor transit infrastructure. Transit is a major component of “quality of life” metrics, an area that Indy falls far behind other cities in. We will never attract the level of talent or businesses we want without a proper public transportation system. If you have ever been to another

   2. John H, can you please cite any business that has not located here because of “our ridiculously poor transit infrastructure”

   3. Rhea. Amazon H2, for one

   4. at the end of the day it is still just a bus system – nothing rapid about it. This system actually takes out a bunch of stops and hurts the people that really use it so not really improving anything – would have been cheaper to add more buses and make the current stops more user friendly. the money would have been better spent on infrastructure for a driverless car/ride sharing system that is not that far from reality. but hey let’s face it, it’s all politics. Oh – and why are we buying more buses from the same company when the buses we have now are supposedly so bad??

   5. Bryan, you’ve got to be particularly dillusional to believe Indy was ever a true contender. Sure, they made the final cut of 20 on paper, but that was never more than a successful attempt to get incredibly valuable information from as many cities as possible.

   6. Bad math = bad thinking.

   7. Smaller lighter buses? What’s the perceived advantage?

      There is none. More than 70% of operating costs are attributable to operator wages and maintenance. Now, maintenance – typically smaller buses incur higher maintenance costs and must be replaced more often. Also, when higher demand is needed the smaller buses are not sufficient. A “handful’ is not data, it is perception. Buses in no city are full from the beginning of the route through the end. Capacity utilization varies throughout the day and by route segments as riders board and alight. Bear in mind the route restructuring to a more grid-like pattern where riders are not required to make extensive out of direction trip to a single transfer point in downtown. Furthermore, buses must be ADA compatible and must accommodate individuals and equipment efficiently — this is not achieved with small buses.

      Highly expensive is subjective. The cost of the proposed BRT system is less than the cost of two freeway interchanges, such as the 65/70 North Split or the 465/70 east interchanges which has been reconstructed several times at significant cost.

      Cost. Question is “highly expensive rapid bus system” compared to what? Compared to the $1.4 billion 20-mile starter light rail line in Phoenix ? Compared to the $900 million 8-mile rail extension to Munster IN? What about the Connect Austin bus and rail plan for $7.1 billion. Or, compared to the $175 million 15-mile Division St BRT in Portland OR.

      Indygo BRT cost for the Red, Purple and Blue lines is: $471 million total, but local cost share is $219 million, for 51 miles of BRT. The Indygo plan is relatively modest cost for miles provided compared to other cities.

      Some do have the option to work at home. Many of the riders who use Indygo daily do not and will not. Buses are not empty and ridership continues to trend upward. If so many indeed are working from home and will continue to do so, then traffic volumes and demand will significantly decrease; therefore, the two lanes dedicated to the Red Line along Meridian between 18th and 38th Street will not impact the ever decreasing traffic. If one reviews documentation of traffic analysis in the environmental reports and drives Meridian Street in the noted segment daily, it is clear that the Red Line has not caused traffic congestion. If one prefers a perceptually fast trip in this corridor, Illinois Street and Delaware offer convenient and efficient alternatives northbound; Capitol and Central offer southbound options. Now from the historical perspective, the travel time along Meridian was significantly slower 20 years ago (no BRT) than today.

      Many guessed cities would be dead after the 1918 pandemic. That did not occur.

      Indygo has reevaluated and identified changes. But BRT is still a key element in three corridors — those with the heaviest ridership. Signal timing and optimization options have been noted. Other changes for route structure, frequency, and connection are in response to comment received from the public, particularly riders who use the system daily. An extension to the north is no longer anticipated. But to better improve connectivity and access throughout the service district (Marion County) partnership with providers such as Lyft and Uber would serve as an extension of transit in areas where fixed route service would not be cost-effective.

      In regard to future planning with transit, Indygo and Indianapolis is in great company with many growing and attractive cities such as Austin TX, Portland OR, Phoenix AZ and Salt Lake City UT — all continue to improve their transit which includes bus and rail. Granted, those cities are growing faster than Indianapolis but people in those places also work from home and shop online, but many in those low density, spread out cities also use transit. In consideration of nearby cities, Indianapolis is finally catching up to peer cities such as Louisville KY, Columbus OH, and Grand Rapids MI. Indygo implements bus improvements on three (just three) corridors, improves service frequency on the busiest routes, and links to ANCs — this is positive plan of action and modest in cost compared to other cities. To do nothing is not the answer.

3. I love using the Red Line!! In just a few short years, the combined BRT will be a shining beacon for the city

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   1. Spot on!

   2. I doubt it will ever be a beacon for the City.

4. Critics of the BRT are not users of mass transit, as is obvious by their observations that busses are mostly empty. While that may be true at the terminus of routes, as the busses get closer to Downtown they fill up with riders. The city’s recent change in zoning near BRT stations to allow “by right” multi-use developments of increased heights and density will also provide a growing stream of riders in the future. The success of IndyGo’s plans depends on having an expanding network of both regular and BRT routes that feed off each other. To judge such plans a failure is both premature and foolish.

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5. Mass transit is a wise investment for the future of Indianapolis. Improving it is long overdue. Indy is routinely passed over from outside business investment because of our ridiculously poor transit infrastructure. Transit is a major component of “quality of life” metrics, an area that Indy falls far behind other cities in. We will never attract the level of talent or businesses we want without a proper public transportation system. If you have ever been to another city, it is patently obvious.

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6. The main issue with the Red Line was that it was supposed to run North to Carmel and provide transportation to the offices, hotels and shops on Pennsylvania St. The second transit. Pre Covid businesses on 96th and Collage and North would have loved bus service for their employees. Could have split and had a Gieco, heart hospital shuttle, etc. instead nothing due to NIMBY.

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   1. Do you ever find it ironic how some can exalt the virtues and justness of the public participation but resort to name-calling when they don’t get their way?

      Perhaps the problem is IndyGo and the MPO didn’t do the leg work during the planning program to see if an extension into Carmel was something Carmel would support.

   2. The legwork was done. This is documented in the Connect Indy and other reports completed by the MPO. The follow up plan was to assess function after the system started than consider extensions. The case is similar for Johnson County which did complete a transit plan and is considering options. However, demographics and history are different for Johnson County.

      Also bear in mind the State Legislature dictates regarding transit and the facts for local (read: county). Each county in the Indianapolis region can decide to join. So far, only Marion County is in; the historical service to Johnson County notwithstanding. Unlike many cities where transit is provided to the region, Indygo is essentially limited to Marion County system and adjacent counties have no transit to (even) allow transfers.

      Perhaps reverse commute or directional (alight only/board only) could be provided into Hamilton County, with county permission of course, to allow Marion County residents access to jobs and markets there. In this case all costs would be borne by Indygo/Marion County residents and the service would not allow intra-Hamilton county trips. Or, Uber and Lyft could be used as a first-mile/last-mile feeder/distributor to Indygo service at fixed transfer point that could be established in the College Park, Nora, and Castleton areas.

      Actually, CIRTA should coordinate any external trips as has been done with the Whitestown shuttle.

7. IndyGo desperately needs audited.

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   1. Conducted by the Federal Transit Administration for the federally funded projects. Why does Indygo need to be audited. What is the concern or fear?