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28 Comments
1) This area of Downtown is over-saturated with plazas. They’re empty space that, without programming and intentional upkeep, will fall apart just like Lugar Plaza is. Between Lugar Plaza, the Fieldhouse Plaza, the Cummins Green, Presidential Place Park, the West Plaza of City Market, and so on, alongside the lack of urgency to infill the endless sea of parking lots, the City seems hellbent on keeping this part of Downtown empty and inactive.
2) Stop doing the “shift the blame” game. This administration loves to crap all over IndyGo while largely leaving them to fend for themselves instead of treating them like the critical public service that they are. Knock it off.
+2
This is a good development parcel.
It seems to be more of a security and maintenance issue than a design problem.
The design was the same when the plaza first opened, and the article makes clear the plaza was a great success for many years. There were also plenty of plazas in the area when this one opened.
What has changed is more people work from home than they did when the plaza first opened, but there are also thousands of more people living downtown now than in 2018.
First, improve the security and keep the area clean and well-maintained. Then, perhaps add a few shaded areas and a new signature piece of art. Keep programming events in the space to entice new visitors and bring old visitors back. That is all.
Finally, what does IndyGo have to do with the price of eggs? They are an independent public transit agency that has its own dedicated tax funding. Aside from getting swiped at from time to time by the state General Assembly, they are doing just fine.
Christopher
+ 1
Security, public art, and programming in that order.
Christopher +1
Daniel, the “parcel” is the roof of a parking garage not built to hold up much weight.
I appreciate the point, but I think “programming” is a bit of a crutch. The best public spaces in the world aren’t programmed, they’re inhabited. If a plaza needs organized events to avoid being empty, that’s not a programming problem, it’s a design problem. Too many of our downtown spaces are: 1) Surrounded by dead edges, 2) Lacking enclosure, 3) Designed as leftover voids rather than true places. What we need isn’t more events…we need better urbanism. Above all, we need cafés, shops, doors and windows, terraces, density, and architecture people are drawn to. Get that right, and people will come naturally, and we won’t need to hire someone to make the space feel alive.
No, it’s not a design problem. Hoosiers have to be drawn to places by activity or entertainment. And we drive there.
We don’t have centuries-old European marktplatzes surrounded by urban apartment blocks with ground floor commercial storefronts; our culture and historical built environment are different, especially in a city like Indy that has only been established for 200 years.
Paul has the best observations and comments here, and is mostly correct! The design does have everything to do with the space and the programming is nothing more than a response to symptoms. Haley’s comments on this as the ‘front door’ and then says the ‘backyard’ are a total contradiction and misunderstanding of what this space is. The only reason this space is available is the original classic and monumental Marion County Courthouse was located here while the new and modern City County Building was being constructed. The space then became the parking garage with a basic wide entrance to the new CCB, of which was a crime to demolish the historic courthouse to begin with!
The current contrived design was an attempt at being trendy with no relevance to what it could or should be. At least Mr Big Car Walker seems to understand how spaces work, but not necessarily this or Monument Circle and the Canal, as after the fact solutions. Tactical or Guerrilla Urbanism is nothing more than throwing food at the ceiling to see if it sticks. A shallow and uncreative attempt to trick folks and whitewash the original problem by being cool. There is-was no need to continue the contrived S..t On the Circle for a 5th year, but it will be interesting to see what the Big Car kids propose for the canal. Since Georgia St is being rebuilt with new designs for the second time in 13 years, the jury remains out for now.
100000%
Obviously the missing component is to close off the adjacent sections of Washington, Delaware and Alabama streets. This will “activate” these spaces with “tactical urbanism” and porta-potties. Cars are bad!
I have lived downtown for 25 years(In Indy for over 40), worked downtown for 30 years), and enjoyed many years of the vibrant city market area. I do not feel safe downtown in the area all around the City County Building any longer. It is unfortunate.
That has a lot to do with the City killing the City Market and fencing off Whistler Plaza, creating a full block dead zone.
Chris B.
Good points, but it is also a perceived safety threat ( particularly for
women wanting to enter the city market.). A lot vagrants hanging around the entrance individually and in groups. No one wants to walk through that. Especially women.
Keith, not disagreeing. Closing off “good” activity created a policing problem on the Market side of CCB.
Plus with the courts and jail relocation, and the ability to handle many remaining citizen-government interactions online since the pandemic, there simply is far less everyday activity at the CCB. Fewer LEOs, fewer eyes on the street = more illicit/illegal activity.
What is happening at Lugar Plaza is endenic to what is happening across the downtown. Homeless (urban campers, unhoused, however you wish to address this population), beggers, drugs, etc. have taken over many of the public areas and not just Lugar Plaza. Monument Circle, Legion Plaza and other green spaces have become unsafe over the years as have many other areas of dowtown. And to blame Indygo is just a sifting of the blame from public to private.
Amen TH!! This administration has failed the residents of Indianapolis for years and will continue to do so. So sad to see what downtown was and what it looks like today.
Thomas H.
+1
When you point out the problem of vagrants, beggars, and drug addicted people hanging in the green spaces,
you get accused of being prejudice or
being uninformed.
What deniers fail to realize is that people vote with their dollars and feet.
Maybe if the city moves the Julia Carson Transit Center to the recently abandoned White River Greenway all of the problems will shift out of Lugar Plaza. Still on Washington street, just a few blocks west. Closer to Indygo Garages, right on the New Purple line. Place one bus stop by Gainbridge for gameday visitors. Problem solved.
And when you move these homeless individuals and the drug dealers who prey on them out of Lugar, do they just disappear? No, they are going to go to find another location and then another and so on until the root problem is addressed. We need mandated mental health facilities & drug treatment facilities, with follow up supportive housing. We need to stop giving millions of dollars to groups that perpetuate the problem instead of solving the problem of homelessness.
This is a SAD conversation we are having. Our Downtown is Economically Collapsed and a vibrant culture that we had not so long ago has completely disappeared. Like Hollywood we are “staging” a story of success. Projects with no economic sustainability without the taxpayer propping it up…
I Worked Downtown for 30+ years its depressing to see what has become of it. Extremely Sad to See.
We moved the courts East and the attorneys have no reason to rent Downtown office space nor do the businesses that rely on those attorneys have any reason to stay.
The Economic Health of a City is reflected in the vibrancy of its commerce and the commerce in Downtown Indianapolis is greatly dwindling from just several years back.
Indianapolis’ Downtown is on the Gas in Totally the Wrong direction.
We are redoing Lugar Towers for the “Millionth Time”???? Really???
If you’re a lucky building owner in Downtown they will buy and redevelop your Low Occupancy or Vacant Office Building (Which was Not Long Ago teeming with Vibrant Commerce) into a tax credit Apartment Building Or a hotel with diminished tax revenues. Yep, Good Luck with that. (AGMI)
If you are attempting to turn Indianapolis into Gary Indiana you are on the fastest path to get there. No longer will you have to Drive 2 hours to get to Gary because they are bringing all the urban decay to you!!!
Today, Our City Indianapolis, knows how to spend money but it does not know how to financially sustain its future and long term growth.
It will be marked in the History Books who and what was responsible and so will, God Willing, its rebirth.
John P.
+1
Great points made. I moved here in 84 and we had a cleaner and more vibrant downtown south of Washington street.
Also, when the city decided to move the justice center, they didn’t anticipate all the attorneys and other people involved moving their operations to the east side.
That really hurt City Market.
Another factor not being mentioned is all the lost revenue from Lucas Oil stadium because of the deal the CIB
made with the Colts. An enormous amount of lost revenue that is needed for downtown improvements and maintenance. ** Downtown sidewalks, curbs, etc… have suffered neglect since the CIB negotiated the Colts contract.
Unfortunately our city is being run by people that do not have the leadership talent, vision and fortitude to do what many of our city past Leaders did. It is so sad to see what is happening to a place that could be a model as it once was under outstanding Leaders. At the State level, we are healthy and well, but in the biggest city, the capital of the state, we are going backwards in most every measure. Shame on us for electing these kind of Leaders.
And most likely, the next major is Democrat Socialist! Sad!!!
LOL. We are NOT “healthy and well” at the state level in Indiana. We build highways to nowhere, pay for multiple bridges across Kentucky’s river, and ignore the highway expansion needs of the state’s largest city and its suburbs.
Our state ranks “abysmal” for education, including degree attainment; our median wage is falling farther and farther behind the rest of the US, and our health rankings are also low.
Chris B,
Agreed, we built and want to build unnecessary highways instead of expanding our main thorough fares.
I -65 should have had lane expansions
all the way from Louisville to.Chicago
before the I-69 highway was built.
Why is Indiana paying the bulk of the cost for these bridges over the Ohio River into Kentucky????
These bridges going over into the Louisville area benefit Louisville and Kentucky far more than Indianapolis and Indiana.
Predictable.