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Wow! And all over a simple land use development issue. Maggie Lewis’ comment summed it all up! Keep fighting for what’s right Ron!
Political violence is never the answer. However, describing this as simply a “land use issue” displays an utter disregard for folks’ ability to have a say in how their communities are structured. In their place, we can be sure you would sound a different tune.
A good chunk of what’s wrong with this country can be rooted in just “land use issues”.
Michael N., what were the other proposed uses for this site? What developers were eager to spend millions of dollars there? Land use is subject to the normal “supply and demand” of the free market. Unless you have knowledge that another developer was willing and able to purchase the parcel, you can’t deny the right of others to buy and use the property subject to government approval.
+100, Brent. Spot on.
In Indianapolis. Seriously…..With all the Ring cameras and the government knowing everyone’s electronic footprints, this will be solved quickly. Violence is never the answer and justice will be served…all over a land use development. This isn’t 1799, so I am sure the officials will sort it out fast.
Michael N —
“Folks” had their ability to have a say. And they, in fact, had their say. What you are objecting to is that you lost. The vocal minority were defeated by the silent majority and knowledgeable people on the MDC who had the courage to stand up against crazy objections.
This is rule of law in a democracy. Violent protest has no place REGARDLESS of the issue, and gunfire into an elected officials home is pure terrorism. The idea that you would even lean toward giving it the benefit of the doubt is reprehensible and discredits completely the opponents of this project.
I have yet to hear a pro-data center statement from someone who actually lives within the neighborhood. The “yes” voices all seem to be coming from outside the impacted area.
No, Mark, I’m pretty clearly objecting to your statement that this is “a simple land use.” And did you miss the part where I said that “political violence is never the answer?” If you want to debate with somebody, debate what they actually say. You’re arguing with yourself at this point. The “silent majority” is awfully loud making bad faith poorly reasoned arguments in the IBJ comments section these days
AR, I think it’s reasonable to oppose misguided NIMBYism wherever it is. Councilor Gibson represents the neighborhood, lives within his district boundary, and he supported the project. That’s how things work in a representative democracy.
Would love to hear why NIMBYism in this sense is misguided and a data center is actually good for the residents of Martindale Brightwood.
Next tell me why the proposed data center across the Pennsy Trail from Irvington Community School is also appropriate and why future opposition to that will be misguided
Data centers and warehouses are among the best reuses of former industrial and contaminated land. The MB rail yard site and the former Ford plant on English Ave. are good examples.
Another example is the USPS facility on the former Harvester site on Brookville Rd. (This one is walking distance from my son’s house and he was supportive despite the increase in 24-hour truck traffic. Definitely better than a dead factory.)
Explain WHY Chris. Why are data centers a good use of land. Don’t just claim it, make an argument for it.
1. Commercial-industrial reuse of brownfield land is commonly accepted as the highest and best use of vacant land that cannot be cleaned up to residential standards.
2. Data centers have much lower traffic than warehouses because relatively few people work there and there are no regular deliveries once built.
3. Lower traffic in the same footprint of land as a high-traffic warehouse should be preferred by neighbors worried about traffic, 24-hour truck backing/beeping, idling, engine noise, and engine exhaust.
4. Data centers have a higher business personal property investment per square foot and contribute more to the tax base than warehouses (assuming the municipality does not give away the BPP tax as Shelbyville is reportedly doing per another IBJ story today).
(These things should be obvious to IBJ readers with any knowledge of municipal finance and finance. They are clearly obvious to the Councilor.)
Those are all preferences, not data. These neighbors already live near busy train tracks and shopping centers. The lack of permanent job creation is one of their main concerns, as well as a main concern with every single data center project, which you’ve somehow spun into a positive in your head lol. And you still haven’t addressed concerns with air and water quality, and water and energy usage that leads to higher energy rates and worse quality of life for the community
… and btw, Ron Gibson deserves immense credit for his courage. His district and the people of Martindale Brightwood in particular should be very proud of him.
Amen to this.
+2 appreciate your practical, thoughtful approach….
I see were mistaking callousness for courage.
Hey Murray, I assume you’re willing to give up your laptop and smartphone and go back to a typewriter and landline, so the folks in MB can have 40 more years of vacancy and blight, or maybe another giant truck parking lot or junkyard or high use rail crossing (as are already next door to this site).
Councilor Gibson looked at the proposal and agreed that it represents higher and better use and there is nothing callous about that. He made a tough choice. That some terrorist thug unloaded a clip at his house in retaliation should end the discussion.
Unless you support terrorism against local government officials who take a stand you disagree with.
Between your hyperbole and clear lack of context on how Gibson conducted himself, entirely separate from his decision to support the project, I am convinced you are a fool running a fools errand.
Murray, the biggest fool is the one who doesn’t consider facts and evidence.
We need data centers in a because none of us are giving up our devices.
We need tax-generating uses on long-vacant brownfield sites that are a detriment to the community, and data centers can meet this need.
Councilor Gibson seems to understand both of these “givens” and chose to support this project against vague declarations of racism and injustice and unfounded claims of environmental impact.
Would love to see Chris tell a resident of the neighborhood who has lived there their whole life that their concerns about racism and injustice are vague.
Michael should explain to people in underinvested neighborhoods all over Indianapolis why they shouldn’t have decent infrastructure and services because he wants brownfields to sit empty, generating almost no tax revenue for the City for 40 more years.
Part of me wonders if this anti data center sentiment we are seeing is really a backlash against ai, and land use issues is just the vehicle people are using
What happens when a data center is proposed in an industrial district with its own power generation, limited water usage – Will there still be push back?
I think this is right, Brian. Communities have legitimate concerns about water use and retention, diesel generator requirements, power use overall. Ultimately, these data centers support a single industry whose value to society is still up in the air. AI companies are in a race against each other to build these am do not care if communities are adversely affected. Our elected officials have not done the hard work to make a good argument that these belong in communities (nor anre any of the supporters in these comments,) and citizens are rightly voicing their concerns.
Fear born of ignorance.
AI is not a “single industry” driving the need for data centers. Business cloud storage, online shopping, information retrieval (such as online newspapers/websites) and online video gobble up huge amounts of storage and processing bandwidth.
(For instance, there are hundreds of data centers around Washington DC because defense contractors, government agencies, and the national security establishment depend on the cloud.)
This one in particular will use closed loop water cooling, so the “water resources” argument is groundless. The generators are backup power and run when power goes out, not constantly (like a fleet of idling diesels at a big warehouse).
Being irrationally opposed to data centers today out of fear is about like opposing electrification 100 years ago or railroads 150 years ago.